Sean: Here's my next question for you. Marketing is something that we do and something that all business owners should do, but there is confusion happening, whereas people are thinking, okay, how am I gonna follow Vince's advice and tell who I am to other people without running ads. Do I need to spend on ads? And how can I spend on advertising when the pandemic is there, the lockdowns are there, what do you think about that? Was it smart for them to cut their marketing slash advertising budget during the lockdowns?

Vince: A hundred percent, I mean, there are multiple reasons that it was a smart thing to do. First of all, because in some cases it's inappropriate, depending on what it is you're offering, depending on what your services and your product sound and things like that.

To market it to people in a time where everybody's in chaos. To market to people in a time where everybody is fearful, they're losing their jobs. They don't know what's around the corner. They're in a sense of heightened anxiety and there's an ethical aspect to not marketing to those people. And I'll give you a good, like over here in New Zealand, we live in a really peaceful country.

We live in an amazing country, but from time to time, we have these disasters that happen. We had the Christchurch earthquake, which was absolutely devastating. A lot of people lost their lives. A lot of people lost their homes. A lot of businesses went under and everything.

The moment that that happens, just about every single business in New Zealand, certainly all the corporates I was working with, we all killed our budgets and we said, we're not marketing to anybody right now. Right now, our only focus is to make sure that people aren't vulnerable and we don't want to be marketing to a vulnerable individual. We also had a while I was at Cigna, we had a shooting at one of the mosques in Christchurch, but burrow crushed it.

So they had the shootings in the mosque there, and it was an absolutely devastating, terrible time. A lot of people lost their life due to just ignorance and stupidity from, from an individual. And as a result, we immediately killed all of our budgets. We took our ads off the air. We took our digital budgets offline, all these kinds of things as well. Because, and there's a state where people are emotional, where people are anxious and there is a moral obligation to you as a marketer to go, you know what? Let's let them get through this, before I start trying to ram things down their throats.

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