Mike Garrison: Alright everybody. That was a great introduction by my friend John Lusher. But this is your actual host, me, Mike Garrison, with today's guest, Tina Corner Stoltz, an absolute sales God

Tina Corner Stolz: Got us.

Mike Garrison: Tina's a great friend. She's awesome. We're gonna have a lot of fun. But, Tina, if you wouldn't mind as opposed to me, just prattling off about why you're so awesome. Introduce yourself to the fine folks on the podcast.

Tina Corner Stolz: Thank you, Mike. I am actually excited to be here because I know we're gonna have a great conversation that has been unplanned. So I know the short story here is and there'll be a little bit of context, probably because of what we're gonna talk about today. But I did. I grew up on a farm in Missouri. and a very small place. Fast forward sales is my background, as you kind of referred to, and I sold telecom; long distance services when everybody was scared to death that if they switch from AT&T they would all, you know, lose their jobs, and you can relate because you sold copiers.

Mike Garrison: I owned a lot of cards.

Tina Corner Stolz: Yes, and I actually paid for my 1st job like I actually paid for my 1st sales job. I paid $1,500 to get it.

Mike Garrison: Yep.

Tina Corner Stolz: Full commission. And I, everybody goes, What do you mean? You paid? I go. It was during the day that you actually paid the recruiter.

Mike Garrison: Oh, yeah, as a salesperson. Yeah.

Tina Corner Stolz: As a salesperson, and I thought I was gonna actually die of not having any money to eat and stuff. So that's a different story.

Tina Corner Stolz: My mom gave me really good advice about just take rice and put a piece of cheese on it, and you'll be fine.

Tina Corner Stolz: So I fast forward, though. Got into the Peer group business in 2005 as a franchisee.

Tina Corner Stolz: and you can relate to that as well. And then started LX Council in 2013, where we are the educators in the Peer Group Space.

Tina Corner Stolz: Our mission is to educate and help those who want to create and run successful peer groups. We are the place for that.

Mike Garrison: I am definitely biased, seeing as I'm one of your clients. Yes, but today, the title of the podcast is, Why Should I Refer You? And I just want to set the stage, Tina. I talked a little bit about it, but this question is happening every time you meet with somebody that's a client of yours or a potential referral source.

Mike Garrison: The problem is in most referral systems, in most referral strategies or in the world at large.

Mike Garrison: This question is asked unconsciously and answered unconsciously.

Mike Garrison: And that, my friends, is not how we take care of other human beings and ourselves. We, the goal of this, is to help you understand that that question is real.

Mike Garrison: And that the most important word in that question is the last one you ask at the end of the day.

Mike Garrison: Don't be afraid of the question. Instead, be excited about who you are and finding people that want to help you.

Mike Garrison: When you heard the title of the podcast tina. What did you think?

Tina Corner Stolz: I thought this is typical. Mike Garrison.

Mike Garrison: Okay.

Tina Corner Stolz: Okay.

Mike Garrison: Gotta give everybody context that doesn't know me.

Tina Corner Stolz: I know I know who like. You're just straight out. Why should I refer you so? The direct, the direct statement that always can be counted on to come from you.

Mike Garrison: Yes.

Tina Corner Stolz: Yes. So when you said, this is the title, your, podcast. I actually thought that that is a very, very good title, because of everything you just said.

Tina Corner Stolz: Why should people refer you most of the time when people think the opposite right? Why should I refer to you? Which is what you're talking about, but they never ask themselves the question, why should somebody refer to me?

Mike Garrison: Correct.

Tina Corner Stolz: Yeah, correct.

Mike Garrison: And and and that really is at the heart of this, I mean

one of the things that Tina and I share for the podcast listener is. We both work with groups of people.

Mike Garrison: We both are in a position to refer a lot of business and a lot of people are aware of that, and want those referrals, which is not always fun.

Tina Corner Stolz: No, and they can't always have them.

Mike Garrison: Correct. So that leads us to. We're not. That's coming. But let's start here. When you think about your career in sales, and also as a business owner; How would you describe your experience with referrals?

Tina Corner Stolz: I find this interesting, by the way, that the first thing that came to my mind was a personal referral or on the personal side. And I'm not really sure why. Because I actually never thought about it before until you asked the question. And I am fascinated by it. That was the first thing that I thought of, which was when I was going to college.

Tina Corner Stolz: Okay, so keep in mind. I came off of a farm in the middle of nowhere. There were 30 people in my class, a hundred and 50 in my high school from 7 to 12. So that tells you most classes were under 20 people.

Mike Garrison: Wow!

Tina Corner Stolz: So we didn't have football, and there's all kinds of things. There's all kinds of things I was not aware of. I go to go to the University, Missouri. 

Mike Garrison: A small school.

Tina Corner Stolz: A small school exactly, and prior to classes I decided to go through sorority Rush. Right. Now I was unaware of a lot of the nuances of the big schools and how those social girl networks worked.And not necessarily having maybe the right clothes and all of those things.And so I went through a rush, and the house that I ended up pledging literally was because I was referred there.

Mike Garrison: All right. I'm in.

Tina Corner Stolz: Okay. So now I was I, and it was because I actually knew a couple of the girls there. But it was referred, and I was cut by my mom's legacy house.

Tina Corner Stolz: So it's okay, it dawned on me that wow! I don't know that I would have gotten in necessarily, or you know, it's very much. That's a very much kind of a little bit of who do you know? But refer back then it's less so today as it should be less so today. But I also look at my dad, and I recognize he never advertised. He ran many businesses, and I'm not aware of him doing a single advertisement.

Tina Corner Stolz: It was all Referrals.

Tina Corner Stolz: He ran a he ran a car dealership and he ran

a liquor store that was beside the dealership. So that tells you something, you know. Buy the car, get your alcohol, drive home.

Mike Garrison: What he needed was a tow truck.

Tina Corner Stolz: Did have one. It was a huge tow truck, and it was called Becky. After my grandmother.

Mike Garrison: No.

Tina Corner Stolz: Which was his mom. So yeah, he had a tow truck. Yes.

Mike Garrison: So I mean, that's a different kind of tech stack.

Tina Corner Stolz: Yes, exactly so. As you know, the Referrals, as you know, being in sales is, it can be make or break of being number one or not, and literally I found that and selling long distance, the importance of referrals. The importance of my sales team getting referrals so that we could be number one at our office.

Tina Corner Stolz:  And so it matters in the

Mike Garrison: Not that you like winning.

Tina Corner Stolz: Not at all.

Tina Corner Stolz: It's all about winning. It's not about losing, just, you know.

Mike Garrison: Right. Well, you know what second place is.

Tina Corner Stolz: That's right. 

Mike Garrison: 1st loser.

Tina Corner Stolz: Exactly the 1st loser. Is that what you said? I've never heard that.

Mike Garrison: Like. I saw Glen Ross, and I was like.

Tina Corner Stolz: Gotcha.

Mike Garrison: I was like. Well, that is very nice and civilized compared to my experience in the copier sales world.

Tina Corner Stolz: Yes, like.

Mike Garrison: Like he didn't hit anybody.

Tina Corner Stolz: He did not, he did not hit it. Yes, now he did it. Yeah, that's another thing. I watched it recently.

Mike Garrison: It's crazy. So I want to get back to something you said, which is absolutely true, and it really will bring us even deeper into the subject which is the make or break.

Mike Garrison: And so a lot of people don't understand that referrals

can absolutely make or break the individual salesperson big time, even more so when you think about scaling. So much of what attracted me to this referral concept when I 1st heard about it when I was selling copiers in DC, was this ability to have other people prospecting for me? I was ignorant. I didn't really understand. But I was like, Hey, this is great if I develop relations with other people, I can have more sales activity that I don't have to conduct every meeting kind of the top of the funnel concept.

Mike Garrison: The challenge is that like any real marketing system, if you invest poorly, you get worse results, because referrals take time like relationship development. And so when I look at the Why Should I Refer You? I I know, as a prospect or a referral source, whenever I'm looking at somebody that wants referrals for me, I'm all like as a business owner and an experienced salesperson. I'm always thinking first, not even about reputation, right? Because if I if I don't like you and trust you like, I'll be nice to you. But we're never. You're never making it back on my calendar. But I'm always thinking about all right. How much time am I going to have to invest with this person to generate the results that they want? And will that be worth my time fundamentally?

Mike Garrison: And I was talking about this with a technology guy this morning; people don't know how to sell to CEO’s.

Mike Garrison: You know. Like, if you like, getting somebody's attention isn't good enough anymore, you have to be able to get their attention and then reward them for giving you that attention. And the same thing happens with referrals.

Tina Corner Stolz: Platform.

Mike Garrison: Meeting, Your job is to reward the person that introduced you to that prospect you're meeting with. But you have to perform. So that takes us to this, Tina, from your this is a big question. Take it wherever you want…

Mike Garrison: What makes someone worth referring for you?

Tina Corner Stolz: Meaning? Why would I? Why would I refer to someone? What? What do they need to have for me to refer to them? Right?

Tina Corner Stolz: Yeah.

Mike Garrison: Keeping it, General, because there's a lot of ways you can respond.

Tina Corner Stolz: Yes.I when I think about the people that I love to refer to, or I do not like to refer to, it starts with, we have a, we have a trusting relationship.

Tina Corner Stolz: Aside from that, I understand what they do really. Well, I believe what they do really. Well, I think they do an exceptional job at what they do.

Tina Corner Stolz: etc.

Tina Corner Stolz: Table stakes right.

Mike Garrison: Table stakes right.

Tina Corner Stolz: Exactly right. That's like the minimum entry ticket. Right?

Tina Corner Stolz: But the rest is, how do they treat me? Because if they don't do such a great job there. They're probably not going to do a great job with whoever it is. I refer them to the thing, and you and I have talked about this before my number one pet peeve.

Tina Corner Stolz: And I know you hit upon this a lot, and I'm glad that you do, which is, which is the lack of when you do make the referral, and they never let you know how it went. I hate that. I like that I have that today. Right now. There is one that bugs me, and I'm waiting it out, and I'm waiting it out, and I'm waiting it out.

Mike Garrison: It's so frustrating.

Tina Corner Stolz: It is so frustrating. And it's and I almost. It's gonna sound dramatic, not intentional. It's disrespectful. Because you know, haven't they made a referral, and wondered how things went, and then when they realize like, Oh, I should, you know at least say thank you. Give an update or something right, and then it just never happens. And then you finally go, hey? Whatever happened to whatever? Oh, you know, I mean to tell you. No, you didn't because

you didn't until I just reminded you. I wanted to know, right?

Tina Corner Stolz: So I know you do talk a lot about that, but one that I will follow up, and that they're actually grateful for and appreciate it.

Tina Corner Stolz: Because and I know you talk about this.You kind of want to know. Did I hit the mark? Did I not hit the mark? Was that a good referral? Was that not a good referral? So I can learn for the next time.

Mike Garrison: Now, that's key. So I just gotta make this point because that's beautiful. What people don't seem to understand, and really is going to be a big emphasis on the book. Why Should I Refer You? That's going to be coming out next year is digging even deeper into the concept that I talk about in Can I Borrow Your Car  which is a person apiece in this referral game. If you sell stuff that's expensive, that's really worth referral marketing. Financial advisors are near and dear to both of our hearts, for multiple reasons.

Mike Garrison: Including marriage right? Right? But like these, these professionals sometimes get taught referrals in a wide angle, kind of thing. And I do have a strategy for that. It's simple. You tell people you love referrals and then help them right there you go. Don't need new meetings for that, but we get into the micro application. Tina. And this is really what you were talking about.

Mike Garrison: You have to be able to identify who really likes the referral process. And when I say that I'm talking about all three  participants; the salesperson, the referral source, and the prospect right? And that's what I feel like has never been talked about enough, includeing by me.

Mike Garrison: Is that what we're really looking for is some psychographics. Right? Because you're one of those people that doesn't just want to refer and say, good luck, don't want to hear like there's an aspect of hey? If I gave you something I want to make sure it helped you and was useful. That is the number. One thing I look for, and I teach my clients, Find and identify the people that enjoy, that get emotional, cognitive rewards from helping other people. And all you need is 5 of them.And you will rule the world in your little niche. Right? And that's it. And and so what's interesting is, you specifically talked aboutthat you're kind of looking at this person that wants those referrals to have that mindset as well like, Hey, this is great. This is cool. Of course I'm gonna let you know, like I dropped the ball on a couple of referrals, not completely. But I I got overwhelmed with too much business.

Tina Corner Stolz: Like what happened to you.

Mike Garrison: I will. I waited too long to hire more staff. And then I got overwhelmed. I had a friend who's on the podcast right now with me, who had told me months ago, I needed to hire an assistant, and I didn't listen. There. I admitted it. I didn't say you did it, but I admitted it. So we and I I apologize. Luckily most of the time I'm on board, and I'm on top of it. And so you build margin because referrals aren't always going to go great. Sometimes stuff slips through the crack.

Mike Garrison: I had somebody give me the riot act yesterday in an email.

Tina Corner Stolz: You?

Mike Garrison: Yeah, I had done a presentation to this large group of people for free about centers of influence, and say, Hey, look, you know, if you want to follow up with me, and you know connect, we can do it, you know, like, and I do, that all the time. But this person had sent me an email basically telling me, Hey, look, I I know you have referrals to give coaches. I'm here for it. Let's schedule a meeting.

Mike Garrison: And so I initially didn't respond. I just didn't respond because I was like, like it wasn't a huge issue. They're not a perfect

vendor for me right? But then they sent me a follow up email 4 months later. I guess not. In the future you might wanna tell the truth when you tell people you're willing to help them.

Mike Garrison: And so I looked at it for a while, and I responded back, and I said, Hey, I apologize. I did drop the ball on that. I got your email. I just forgot about it. I'm sorry I didn't say, let's have a meeting.

Mike Garrison: But I was like I dropped it. And he actually, you know what I apologize. I should have followed up earlier, and I have not responded, because I agree with him.

Mike Garrison: Cliff this like, why are you? Why are you guilting me

when I'm a potential referral source? Oh, my, let's just let's just class. I'm sure that's happened to you where someone is like. Wow! Tina could give me all this business. Which is true for a number of different people. Not that you will, but it's true. And then all of a sudden they get angry at you before you've agreed to do it. They get angry.

Tina Corner Stolz: Moment.

Mike Garrison: Yeah, like, how have you? I know it's happened to you. How have you dealt with that in the past with the people that are just bad actors? But potentially because they were referred to you or like part of your network. How how do you handle that that part of contention.

Tina Corner Stolz: I,you know, cause you never want to lie so right. No lying. So what I.

Mike Garrison: You shouldn't lie. I I do want to lie sometimes.

Tina Corner Stolz: I know it's tempting, but it's like, no. So because I know you know, you're a faith based guy, and so am I. And so you get you struggle sometimes like what you really want to do versus what you should actually say. 

Tina Corner Stolz: I actually say. When I get somebody coming in hot, and I can tell they're like, you know. What can you do for me? What can you do for me? And we don't have.

Tina Corner Stolz: We haven't built a relationship at all, or minimal. And I you know. What I will say is that I hear it. Thanks for the time. It's good to, you know. Good to hear. You know exactly what you do, etc. I just don't have anybody right now that I think is a good fit. And then I never do...