Sean: And what's the problem? Why aren't more people doing it? Why aren't more people going out of their way and asking for help from mentors?

Alan: I think it's probably because most of us believe that good enough is good enough, right? We advanced down the process of development of expertise, and we got to a point that I would refer to, in the literature it seems reference is just an element of proficiency. Right? 'I'm pretty good, right? I've got a level of work that is adequate. You know, my managers don't sort of question my ability to deliver a right. And so I'm proficient. I'm good enough.'

Alan: And getting beyond that to the truly exceptional right is a big leap. And it's hard. It's hard to develop expertise. It takes practice. It takes time. It takes commitment. Oftentimes, you're never thanked for it. And so why do it? When you do put yourself out there in expertise, you get shot at more than you get praise right, people. People are critical of you more than their, you know, admiring right. And so it's a hard sort of thankless world, but it's an important one because it's truly exceptional. It's truly an expert that actually changes the world, right? They make a big difference, disproportionately. So I think that we all need to pursue expertise beyond a level of proficiency. We just need to be just the best there is at it. I think it's fundamental and just taking it a step further.

Alan: We're all familiar. Mean most people are listening to us and probably be familiar with this hierarchy of needs, right. At the base of our needs. We have these physiological needs. I need to sleep and eat and have shelter, right? And we go up to like social needs. At the top of Maslow's pyramid of needs is this concept called self-actualization, which is I have a need to become the best I can be. I have a need to explore and go beyond what's been done before. It's a human need. It's an attribute. So that's something that very few people actually accomplish in their life is this idea of self-actualization. But it is a need. It's a fundamental biological, you know, wired into human DNA sort of need, that we all should be pursuing.

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