This week we're going deep on a controversial topic: human population growth. We talk about the roots of the overpopulation myth, the truths we can glean from it, and the scary ways that both eco-fascists and seemingly centrist figures have joined the population conversation. We take a closer look at the ways we talk about consumption and give tips on how to talk to your social circle when they bring up population fears. Because we don't have to live our lives from the scarcity-minded "lifeboat ethics" perspective! But a climate-just future will take work from all of us.

World Is Burning is hosted by Olivia Hamilton and Elise Nye. Our theme music is by Kaycie Satterfield, and our logo was made by Sonja Katanic.