Justin and Stephen talk with Dr. Victoria Reynolds Farmer about experiences of people with disabilities during COVID, including reasons for hope, frustration, and deep disappointment. They discuss the question of why society seems to be able to adapt now in ways that were resisted earlier, the experience of growing up Christian and disabled, and hopes for the church. Victoria shares about embodied faith and incarnational theology. They conclude with a discussion of Jean Vanier and abuse. Justin and Stephen also talk about the transition out of the semester and the pleasure of outrage.