Christopher announces the publication date and publisher for his next supernatural thriller, THE VINES. (And Eric is forced to read the plot synopsis aloud to creepy music.) The final thrilling installment in Christopher’s interview with critically acclaimed thriller writer, Terry Hayes. Famed prosecutor and mystery novelist Marcia Clark is live in studio to discuss rampage killers and school shootings, the subject matter of her Rachel Knight mystery, THE COMPETITION.

Hollywood has really glorified the genius psychopath, the genius serial killer, he outsmarts all the police…the psychopaths are not that smart. What makes it hard to catch them is they don't act on motives that are understandable, or you can't logic your way through their motives. They strike at random, they strike on impulse, but that's the kind of killer that's hard to catch.MARCIA CLARK

The Dinner Party Show Podcast — Ep. 80

Marcia Clark Interview Transcript

{This transcript is the Marcia Clark interview portion of Episode 80} {This transcript is provided as a courtesy and was transcribed as best as possible. Any errors or omissions in the transcript are unintentional. The recorded audio file of the podcast episode is considered the master of what was said.}

Announcer: You are listening to The Dinner Party Show with Christopher Rice and Eric Shaw Quinn. Let's Dish.

Christopher Rice: Welcome back to The Dinner Party Show. I'm Christopher Rice.

Eric Shaw Quinn: And I'm Eric Shaw Quinn.

Christopher Rice: And we actually called this show Beach Reading, but I think we forgot that we called it that, but that is why we just played a song called Life's a Beach.

Eric Shaw Quinn: That's right. And that's what I said on my tweet and on my Facebook page today.

Christopher Rice: I think I forgot to say that on my tweet and Facebook page today.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Well, despite that fact, it's still all about beach reads, and we've got an author right here in the studio who has a book coming out next week.

Christopher Rice: Marcia Clark is here. She's nodding.

Eric Shaw Quinn: And it's the perfect beach read, her latest Rachel Knight.

Christopher Rice: Absolutely. Latest installment in your Rachel Knight mystery series. The pre-order link for Barnes and Noble is up on our website at thedinnerpartyshow.com.

Marcia Clark: Thank you very much.

Christopher Rice: We encourage everyone to go there and buy the book. And this is the fourth?

Eric Shaw Quinn: And support the show.

Christopher Rice: The fourth?

Marcia Clark: Fourth.

Christopher Rice: The fourth installment. All right. Okay.

Marcia Clark: Yes. Yes.

Christopher Rice: Good.

Marcia Clark: So we're going to talk about what it is?

Christopher Rice: We can talk about what it is. Yeah, absolutely.

Marcia Clark: We don't have to.

Eric Shaw Quinn: No.

Christopher Rice: We have to talk about what it is.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Oh my God. Everybody wants to know.

Christopher Rice: Do you have something else you want to talk about, Marcia?

Marcia Clark: Not really. No. I'm open though.

Christopher Rice: I'd rather talk about the finger sandwiches in the lobby.

Marcia Clark: They're really looking good too.

Christopher Rice: Yeah. But you know what you can do? You can do what I did. I had Eric read my plot synopsis. But if you want to talk about it…

Eric Shaw Quinn: If you brought your plot synopsis, I'll be happy to read it.

Christopher Rice: I think that you... I have a sense that you're good at public speaking. I just feel like it's maybe in your past.

Eric Shaw Quinn: It's something I remember. I can't think quite why I think that.

Christopher Rice: The Olympics, I think. Yeah, you were at the Olympics in '84. Okay. Anyway.

Marcia Clark: Yeah. I don't even have a plot synopsis, and I think that the one that really is is set-

Christopher Rice: This book has no plot.

Marcia Clark: This book has no plot.

Eric Shaw Quinn: What's it called?

Marcia Clark: It's called The Competition.

Christopher Rice: Okay.

Eric Shaw Quinn: And what's it about?

Marcia Clark: Here's the thing. I'm not sure it qualifies as a beach read, because what happened is, a couple years ago, I got seized by, you know how something just bugs you and you have to understand it and you have to figure it out?

Eric Shaw Quinn: Yes.

Marcia Clark: And I got seized by the Columbine shooting.

Christopher Rice: Oh.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Oh. Yeah.

Marcia Clark: Way before Sandy Hook and all this stuff.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Yeah.

Marcia Clark: I was just obsessed with, what makes a kid turn out like that?

Eric Shaw Quinn: Right?

Marcia Clark: And how does this happen, and why does it happen, and why don't we catch it sooner?

Christopher Rice: Right.

Marcia Clark: And how come nobody saw the signs?

Eric Shaw Quinn: Totally.

Marcia Clark: That, to me, was the most compelling thing.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Always.

Marcia Clark: And really, were they bullied? Is that the whole story with them? Are they just victims of jocks, and they had to go out and shoot everybody as a result? So I got into... I researched it, and I had been studying the psychology of psychopathy and sociopathy back when I was a DA and back in the eighties and I had my first serial killer case, and I was puzzled then, too, like, "What makes someone like this? It's so inhuman."

Eric Shaw Quinn:

Right.

Marcia Clark:

So I kind of reinvigorated that research, and then studied the Columbine shootings, and then talked to shrinks and talked to a bunch of people. I have to write about this. Because I want to talk about, and I think we should be talking about, what it is that causes this. Because I think the first line of defense is to diagnose these kids, is to find who they are, figure out who they are, and then act accordingly. Do you know... For example, the best example, so I finished actually writing the first draft. I'm interrupting myself. I do that all the time.

Eric Shaw Quinn: It's your story.

Marcia Clark: I guess I'm allowed to.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Tell it the way you want to.

Christopher Rice: Yeah. I'm riveted. I don't care. Interrupt away.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Yeah.

Marcia Clark: Okay. So what happened is, I wrote the whole first draft, and then Sandy Hook happened. And I was like, "Oh my God."

Eric Shaw Quinn: Oh, wow.

Marcia Clark: "Maybe I shouldn't... I should maybe just forget to write something else and don't do this."

Eric Shaw Quinn: Right.

Marcia Clark: And then I thought, "But maybe it's important now, actually."

Christopher Rice: Yeah. And maybe you're exactly the person to write it. I don't know.

Marcia Clark: Yeah.

Christopher Rice: Who does know?

Marcia Clark: Or maybe this is the time.

Christopher Rice: Right.

Marcia Clark: And maybe we should all be talking about it and writing about it and figuring this out…

Eric Shaw Quinn: Totally.

Marcia Clark: ... together. And it does take a village, I mean, in this case, because there's going to be all kinds of people who have contact with kids, who have a more objective point of view than the parents do.

Christopher Rice: Right.

Marcia Clark: And they know stuff. School counselors, teachers, you got it, had kids and friends.

Eric Shaw Quinn: That neighbor who saw that kid opening that storage unit just recently.

Marcia Clark: Right. Right? Exactly.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Just like, "Oh my God, this is-

Marcia Clark: Exactly.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Or that new division in Arizona, they call it M.I.S.T. The mental health..

Marcia Clark: Oh, yeah.

Eric Shaw Quinn: ... support team where they actually go out and…

Marcia Clark: Yeah.

Eric Shaw Quinn: ...try and intervene before the fact with people who are having s mental health crisis. Yeah, all of it.

Marcia Clark: We need it all.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Yes.

Christopher Rice: Yeah.

Marcia Clark: We need it all. I mean, it's like, great. Everybody can go talk about gun control and all the rest of it. There is many... This is a puzzle with a lot of pieces to it. No question about it.

Eric Shaw Quinn: Totally.

Christopher Rice: Right, right, right, right.

Marcia Clark: But the beginning of the answer has to be, let's find out who these kids are before they act out and do something about it. And there is actually a neuroscientist, Dr. Kent Kiehl, who has talked about the fact that there are studies and there are actual programs now that can catch these kids and help them young and actually therapize them out of becoming dangerous to society. So there's actually hope for these kids now…

Eric Shaw Quinn: Good.

Christopher Rice: Right.

Marcia Clark: ... that there didn't used to be.

Christopher Rice: Right. Let me ask you something about your research. Did you read a book about Columbine by the author Dave Cullen?

Marcia Clark: Yes.

Christopher Rice: Yeah. Now, he took something like, I don't know, seven or eight years to write that book, which in publishing is like a no-no.

Marcia Clark: Yeah.

Christopher Rice: If you're going to write a true-crime book, they want it out while the crime is still fresh.

Marcia Clark: Right. Right.

Christopher Rice: Sorry to put it that bluntly. And he said in that book that everything you will ever hear about every rampage shooting in the first two weeks will be wrong.

Marcia Clark: Yeah.

Christopher Rice: That everything that we believe to be true about the Columbine shooters, and stop me if I'm getting ahead of your pitch here, was, in fact, not really true.

Marcia Clark: Yeah.

Christopher Rice: They weren't actually very bullied.

Marcia Clark: No.

Christopher Rice: They had friends. They had a social grouping. It was this very simple narrative that came together very quickly that, I guess, assuaged people's own resentments about high school.

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