In our current “world between worlds,” many of us are searching for certainty. Is the real invitation learning how to lead through the unknown?

In this thoughtful conversation, Lis Best sits down with ritualist, cultural transformation facilitator, leadership coach, and We Are The Great Turning podcast host and creator Jess Serrante to explore liminality—the space between what was and what’s becoming.

Jess shares the teachings of her mentor, Joanna Macy, the philosophy behind The Work That Reconnects, and why this moment in history calls for a different kind of leadership rooted in integrity, belonging, and collective responsibility.

Together, they discuss how to navigate uncertainty, foster matriarchy, move beyond individualism, change systems, and lead with integrity during times of personal and societal transformation.

If you're experiencing a life transition, questioning old systems, or searching for hope in a rapidly changing world, this conversation offers nurturing words, wisdom, perspective, and practical ways to embrace possibility in the unknown.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, YouTube, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Episode Outline:

[05:30] Defining liminality and the transformational power of threshold moments

[09:26] The three stories shaping our current world

[11:20] Introducing The Great Turning and Joanna Macy’s legacy

[22:05] Jess’s journey from climate activist to coach and facilitator

[39:30] Leading through uncertainty, complexity, and change

[40:00] Reframing disruption and the possibility hidden inside uncertainty

[42:05] The myth of individualism and importance of belonging

[44:40] Moving beyond the hero’s journey toward collective leadership

[46:29] Finding hope in uncertainty and possibility

Connect with Us:

Jess Serrante Info:

This episode was post-produced and edited by Yanina Mora. 

The intro and outro music was created and produced by Daniel Mark.

About Lis:

Lis Best is an executive coach for impact leaders, founder of the Girls Club Collective, and host of the Women Changing the World podcast.

Since launching her business in 2020, Lis has helped hundreds of leaders navigate ESG and sustainability careers, launch heart-centered businesses, and become more effective change agents.