Sean: What do we do when someone in our team who is working remotely at home says that, and you mentioned this a couple of times earlier that he or she is, is burning out or has burned up, how do we solve or solve that or help the person or the individual?

Bret: The problem with burnouts is it doesn't tell you it's happening both to the person and to the manager. So burnout is something that is happening in every single company. In yours Sean, in everybody's. And it can take longer in some cases it's shorter in some cases, but there's no warning sign until I'm burnt out.

And actually when I'm burnt out, then I'm frazzled. And I don't want to work in your organization. I don't want to talk to your people. I just want my own space. I'm depressed. I don't know what to do with my life. There's a whole lot of issues around this. And actually what as a leader, what leaders have to do is get ahead of burnout. And the remote companies that do this well, train their leadership teams on how to have conversations about their own issues. So if I was in a leadership team now, and I was the you part of my team, I would honestly tell you, Sean, that I've got as you know, because we've chatted about this. I've got a one-year-old and a three-year-old and I'm really struggling to get six hours of work done during daytime hours.

You know, it's really hard. I've got, you know, I've just moved house. I was really struggling to get the work done. And by doing that, I demonstrate my vulnerability to you. I show you that I'm struggling. I'm human, you're human. I'm not Superman. And I say to you, you know, for the next couple of weeks, I am going to actually be working 9,10, 11, or 12 o'clock at night.

I'm not going to be messaging you. I'm not going to be emailing you at that time, but I'm, I don't want you to do this, but I have to make up for that for some of the time being lost. I'm getting it in different ways. I'm getting an experience with my children that I would never have gotten to five years working from an office.

So I'm getting something on the one hand, but I, you know, I'm telling you this and I'm explaining to you, I do not want you to - I want you to decompress. I want you to take time off. I want you to stop working at five o'clock or six o'clock or whatever time suits you and find something else to do.

But really as a leader, I'm first of all, demonstrating my vulnerability. As a company I need to bring in coaches and bring in therapists, that if you want to have a chat with a therapist, it's completely confidential. You can book this therapist. They're available for you. You know, you can spend as much time as you need with them. And if you need to talk, nobody will know it's completely confidential.

So companies are doing different things around this, to make sure that the leadership team is vulnerable, demonstrating their vulnerability. And there are systems in place in the company if you do have issues. If there are concerns, if you are feeling stress, and if you are feeling pressure that you can overcome this.

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