Richard Nixon served as the 37th President of the United States from 1969 until his resignation in 1974. Elected to America’s highest office in the tumultuous 1968 presidential election, Nixon’s presidency is one of the most contradictory in the country’s history. Progressive reformer or reactionary racist? Peace frog or warmonger? Fiery populist or isolated introvert? In short, you can make a case for him being all of these things at once.

Nixon’s life is a lesson in resilience and perseverance; Nixon was no quitter, and had a public life spanning from the 1950s until his death in 1994. Remarkably, Donald Trump and Mike Pence’s 2016 presidential ticket was the first successful Republican ticket not to include either Richard Nixon or a member of the Bush family since 1928, which tells you something about Nixon’s staying power. 

My guest for this conversation is Lilly Goren (@gorenlj on Twitter), professor of political science at Carroll University in Wisconsin. Lilly’s next book, about the politics of the Marvel Cinematic Universe, is coming out later this year.