Why do movements that aim to transform the world so often fall apart from within? And what happens when the gap between our values and our actions becomes too wide to ignore?

In this episode of Trouble Makers, we sit down with Dale McKinley, a veteran activist with over 35 years of experience across South Africa’s most influential social movements. From the Communist Party to the Anti-Privatisation Forum and the Right to Know Campaign, Dale has witnessed firsthand how movements rise and how they implode.

Together with Phil Wilmot, they explore one of the most critical tensions in activism: the balance between changing the world and changing ourselves.

Key Conversations & Insights:

The “personal vs political” gap—and how it destroys movements from the inside

Why failing to confront internal issues (corruption, abuse, dishonesty) leads to collapse

The danger of “don’t air dirty laundry” culture in activist spaces

Real stories of movement breakdowns due to a lack of accountability

How trust, relationships, and internal culture shape long-term impact

Licensing:

Anyone can use this podcast for free, with attribution to Trouble Makers (the podcast). It is held under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 License and can be used for radio or any other media.