Zak Stein talks with Jim about the existential risk of oppressive & unjust education systems, the inefficiency of injustice, how Zak sees social justice, Rawls veil of ignorance, creating new types of people, dynamics of revolutions, limitations of cognitive science & neuroscience, the power of attention & imitation in education, educational tech dangers, four quadrants of systems, complexity science, the difficult problem of official knowledge & educational standards, teacherly authority, changing how people think, rethinking digital affordances, and much more.