Zulfikar Ali Bhutto was the leader of Pakistan from 1971 until 1977. Zulfikar took power in Pakistan at one of the lowest points in its history; the secession of East Pakistan in 1971, now Bangladesh, had called into question the basic concept on which Pakistan had been founded that the Muslim peoples of South Asia should live in one country. 

Bhutto, a Western educated leftist, sought to reinvigorate his bruised Islamic country by uniting it around socialism. The fact that he only ruled Pakistan for five and a half years should probably give you an idea as to how this went, with his government struggling to sidestep the powerful influences of the military and the tribal kinships. The result was a coup in 1977, Bhutto’s execution two years later, and 12 years of military rule. 

My guest for this conversation is Raza Rumi, a Pakistani journalist and public policy analyst based in the United States. Our conversation about Bhutto, encapsulating India, East Pakistan, the army and the kinships builds to a central question: can anyone govern Pakistan?