In this episode of Product Makers Lab, I talk with Phoebe Preuss, founder of Living Koko, a zero-waste cacao business with deep Indigenous roots and a powerful commitment to community development and ethical sourcing.

Phoebe’s story is one of real-world innovation: from learning chocolate-making on YouTube to building a respected brand while staying true to her values.

We explore the ups and downs of growing a product brand without losing authenticity, including collaboration opportunities, managing stakeholder expectations, and creative product development guided by sustainability and respect for tradition.

This conversation will resonate deeply if you’ve ever wrestled with balancing growth while remaining values-led.

Highlights include:

* Phoebe’s 200-year family legacy in cacao farming

* How Living Koko started with a single 70% dark chocolate bar

* Lessons learned expanding (and then downsizing) the product line

* Using byproducts creatively to collaborate with brewers and makers

* Building brand visibility through values, not gimmicks

* Managing cultural sensitivity and community consultation

* Staying resilient in the face of market pressure to “just sell”

* Real-world marketing strategies rooted in authentic community engagement

Learn more about Phoebe and Living Koko:

* Website: Living Koko

* Instagram: @livingkoko

* Email: [email protected]

Follow Product Makers Lab for more inspiring conversations about building standout product businesses:

* Website: Product Innovation Coaching with Olivia Ratten

* LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/olivia-ratten/

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit oliviaratten.substack.com