Ryan and Nicole talk about why their new podcast is called CLOSER, including the notion persons who help others for a living are perhaps naturally more opaque, so the podcast allows them to present a different layer of themselves and their shared life and relationship.

Discussed: doing relationships (apparently) differently, levels of awareness, honesty, congruence, basic orientation to relationships, the nature of information and language relative to talking and knowing, enneagram, evangelical background, shadow work (how knowing what's happening for you relates to what you do or do not see in others), and more.