In the first ever episode of the Gatty Lecture Rewind Podcast, Michael Kirkpatrick Miller sits down with Rebakah Minarchek, to discuss her Gatty Lecture, “Challenging the Map: Indigenous Resistance to Maps as an Object of Power.” Rebakah spent 20 months doing field work in Indonesia, and she draws on the case of the Kesepuhan Adat Banten Kidul indigenous group in southwest Java, Indonesia. Her research follows several communities in West Java as they navigate participatory mapping efforts in response to Indonesian legal changes that promise to turn over government-claimed forests to the country’s indigenous groups. Michael and Rebakah talk about Rebakah’s dissertation, her future projects, and her argument that "participatory" or "counter" mapping with the assistance of outside actors is no longer the only route to territorial claims for indigenous groups as they produce their own version of cartographic "truth."