Jamal goes on to talk about Jesus' interaction with the Samaritan woman from John 4 as an example of what a vibrant, inter-dependent relationship with God can look like, and how this differs from the typical codependent relationship with God that the religious system has conditioned us for.  Finally, Jamal also shares how the attempt of many Christians to relate to the historical person of Jesus (who is no longer here on the earth) actually blinds us to the reality of Christ who is here.  Throw some headphones in and give this episode a careful listen.