This episode contains highlights from the 2015 deposition of David E. “The Apostle” Taylor, of J.M.M.I Ministries in St. Louis, Missouri. Taylor is being questioned by attorney Colleen Ronayne as part of a divorce suit filed by Ricky Frazier, the ex-husband of one of Taylor’s “volunteers” Deborah Frazier, who has donated over a million dollars to the ministry.

Ronayne questions Taylor about his claims to have been visited personally by Jesus, and to have cured people of blindness and AIDS. She also asks about his cars (a BMW, Mercedes, Bentley, and a Range Rover), and his clothing bills ($6,000 at Louis Vuitton, $3,500 at Versace, $1,700 at Monsieur Clothing, and other designer items totaling $30,000 over a two-year period). It’s sometimes painful to listen to Taylor’s fumbling, inarticulate responses. Visibly nervous and biting his bottom lip, Taylor makes pitiful excuses for his frivolous purchases (he has to buy his belts at high-end stores because “they have a better TV appearance”). Interestingly, like Pastor Timothy Omotoso (whose case was featured in Episode 74), Taylor has a particular fondness for garish military jackets.

He claims to know almost nothing about his own finances, repeatedly telling Ronanye that she should ask Michelle Brannon, his fellow board member. He claims not to know his own office address, or the purpose of a $2.8 million dollar property in St. Louis that is listed as an asset on J.M.M.I.’s tax forms, or even the identity of one of his dependents. Every time he’s trapped in a contradiction or a lie, his response is the same: “ask Michelle.”

Listen to the episode here.