Whitney and Coté talk with Andrew Clay Shafer, co-founder of Puppet and principal at an advisory firm, about the nuances of DevOps transformation, open source dynamics, and running his burger restaurant, All American Burger. They talk about the challenges of integrating social and technical systems, managing metrics and KPIs, and the evolving ecosystem of open source software. Also, they go over Andrew's experience in running a fast food restaurant and the parallels between managing a tech company and a food business.

You can also watch the video version of this episode if you're into that kind of thing.

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Special Guest: Andrew Clay Shafer.