Mick chats with academic, war veteran and author Dr Andrew Maher about proxy warfare and interstate competition. They discuss Andrew's new book on the subject, Riding Tigers The Strategic Logic of Proxy Warfare. Mick and Andrew also discuss the perceptions of coming conflicts and what lessons we can learn from history on the prediction of the 'next war'.

Andrew provides a cracking answer to the show's defining question.

You can also grab a book & crack on here.