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This week, Brie speaks with cultural critic & author Thomas Chatterton Williams about his latest book, Self Portrait in Black & White: Unlearning Race. You may know him as one of the authors of the infamous Harpers letter on cancel culture, or from controversy surrounding his takes on hip hop culture from his first book. But in this wide reaching, intimate conversation, Brie and Thomas confront what it means to be "culturally Black," and whether, per Thomas' thesis, he's right to want to be an "ex" Black man. Does ones choice in partner affect their "racial authenticity?" Is Rachel Dolezal a model for how we should perform racial fluidity? What's the line between pride in ones cultural identity and performing the kind of "race craft" that can create a brand of "cultural whiteness" that shores up white supremacy?

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Produced by Ben Dalton (@wbend).

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).