Welcome back to And We Feel Fine, where each week we ask what’s ending, what’s beginning—and what it means to build with care.

In this episode, Katie Smith and Beth Rudden sit down with Pacific tech leader Julia Pahina for a radically honest conversation about the intersections of technology, culture, and systems change.

We talk:

• Why ancestral wisdom and relational intelligence belong in AI
• How to name capitalism and white supremacy in tech spaces
• What it means to “walk out” of harmful systems and create new ones
• The invisible labor of systems change—and the trust it requires
• Data sovereignty, trauma-informed design, and the power of community-led innovation

Julia shares her journey from surviving deep trauma to building systems change across Aotearoa and beyond—explaining why digital futures need care, not conquest.

📍 Follow Julia @lifeofjuliapahina

🔗 Learn more at Wolfe and Fibre Fale

This episode is brought to you by:

🧠 Bast.ai — for trusted, explainable AI

💬 Humma.AI — building Empathetic AI™ rooted in consent and community

🎤 About the Hosts

Beth Rudden (she/her) is the CEO of Bast.ai, a global data scientist and expert in trustworthy, explainable AI rooted in anthropology and care.

Katie Smith (they/them) is the CEO of Humma.AI, a privacy-first AI company that redefines technology through empathy and consent.

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💬 What systems are you walking away from—and what are you building in their place?