Legal Off the Leash

Episode 14: How to KISS

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Welcome to Legal Off The Leash, the podcast where we take the legal profession out of the box and into a happier, more fulfilling future!

In this episode, Scott and Elizabeth are joined by plain language expert Colleen Trolove and information designer Liezl van Zyl for a lively, honest conversation about legalese: why it persists, why it frustrates clients, and what it’s really costing the profession. From hostage negotiation to jazz singing, they explore empathy, identity, hierarchy, AI, and the uncomfortable truth: if your client doesn’t understand you, you haven’t communicated. This is a practical and philosophical deep-dive into what clearer legal writing could unlock.

🔑 Key Themes
  • Legalese as Identity: Why lawyers cling to complex language as a badge of expertise.
  • Precision Myth: The flawed belief that legal language is inherently more accurate.
  • Empathy as Strategy: Understanding your reader as the foundation of good drafting.
  • Hierarchy & Habit: How firm culture and precedent entrench poor writing.
  • Litigation Mindset: Why drafting for the worst-case scenario damages relationships.
  • AI & Plain Language: How technology could accelerate—or undermine—clearer communication.
    • 💬 Memorable Quotes

    “Make sure your reader understand who is doing what to whom.” — Liezl van Zyl

    “If they don't understand it, you haven't communicated it successfully.” — Colleen Trolove

    “The most common myth about communication is that it has actually taken place.” — Liezl van Zyl

    “Legalese is heredatory.” — Elizabeth de Stadler

    “People have a right to understand the documents they need to actively participate in their own lives.” — Liezl van Zyl

    📌 Important Insights & Actionable Takeaways
    • If your client has to ask another lawyer to interpret your advice, you haven’t done your job.
    • Plain language is not about “dumbing down”—it’s about accuracy, structure, and empathy.
    • Legal language often survives because of hierarchy and fear, not because it’s better.
    • Drafting for litigation rather than for relationship-building increases risk rather than reducing it.
    • Start small: replace archaic phrases, use active voice, clarify who is responsible for what.
    • User testing works in law too—observe how real people interact with your documents.
    • AI can help clarify language, but only if you know what you’re trying to say first.
    • Access to justice is fundamentally a communication issue.

      • This episode is a reminder that clarity isn’t cosmetic. It’s ethical. And perhaps the simplest way to take the legal profession off the leash.

      Connect with the Guests

      Colleen Trolove

      🔗 https://www.colleentrolove.co.nz/

      💬 LinkedIn

       

      Liezl van Zyl

      🔗 heyplainjane.com
      💬 LinkedIn

      Resources for you to enjoy

      https://www.colleentrolove.co.nz/plain-language-resource-library

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      Legal Off the LeashBy Legal off The Leash