This week, Roqayah and Kumars are rejoined by Megan the Meme Witch and one of the hosts of the Naughty By Nurture podcast. Longtime listeners will remember her previous interviews discussing shame, trauma and burnout on the left, as well as her appearance modeling a therapy session on a special After Hours episode. This time around Megan outlines what organizers can learn from the lessons of clinical psychological practices about how people change their minds and break their toxic patterns of behavior. 

With the help of the crew, Megan introduces and models one framework she finds useful for organizers constantly confronted with apathy and conservatism: motivational interviewing (MI), which is particularly effective in treating people with deeply entrenched beliefs. Motivational interviewing emphasizes sitting with feelings of ambivalence and letting people come to their own conclusions. Megan, Roqayah, and Kumars end by debating the wisdom of meeting people where they are in the context of genuine bigotry and ideological opposition. 

You follow Megan on Twitter @MemeVVitch and you can check out the abundance of resources referenced in the episode on her old blog. 

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