Ryan and Nicole talk with bio-yogi, author, movement leader, healer, and plant medicine shaman/guide, Julian Devoe, whom they first met during a plant medicine journey involving Huachuma (the San Pedro cactus) in 2024. They discuss everything from plant medicine journeys, the challenges of occupying unconventional healing spaces (i.e., spaces that are divorced from organized religion or therapeutic endeavors), the nature of relationships, and in particular, relationships with people, nature, and the unquantifiable. Discussed: plant medicine, huachuma, ayahuasca, healing experiences, first steps in discovering healing pathways, unconventional experiences, visions, evangelical Christianity, unconventional healing spaces, groundedness, relationship with nature, relationship with people, relationship as preeminent, relationship with the unquantifiable, mystery, mysticism.