In the late 1930s, War in Europe seemed inevitable. Meanwhile, across the Atlantic, a fierce debate was underway — if war comes to Europe, should America get involved or stay out?

On one side of the debate was President Franklin Roosevelt — who favored intervention — and on the other, Charles Lindbergh — the most famous aviator of his day, the son of a congressman and the de facto spokesperson for the “America First” committee. At the time, it was the latest round in a debate that has raged in America since the 18th century.

Our guest today is UT professor HW Brands whose new book is, America First Roosevelt vs. Lindbergh in the Shadow of War. We discuss how the interventionist/isolationist debate panned out in the ’30s and ’40s, why those are imperfect terms for the two sides, and how the interventionist consensus is more fragile today than at any point since Pearl Harbor.