In this Co-management Commons show I am in conversation with Trevor Swerdfager, from the University of Waterloo and former senior bureaucrat with the Government of Canada. Trevor had a long career in public service and through this experience, he gained unique insights into how co-management agreements are developed and implemented from the bureaucratic perspective. Trevor also spent time in private industry and academia, providing additional perspectives. In this wide-ranging discussion, Trevor shares his thoughts on co-management models, challenges, and opportunities based on his diverse career path. He offers valuable insights for both practitioners and students of co-management and Indigenous resource governance.