In the last half century, governments across the anglosphere, but especially in the United States, have become obsessed with means testing. But ultimately, this kind of program ends up being far less effective, and even more expensive, than universal programs. We know this because we still have universal programs, and those programs are just about the most popular things the government does. Listen along as Megan and Clayton talk about why we need to move away from means tested programs, and back towards universal ones.