Mama Z joins Carmen Z in "the basement" to discuss the whirlwind of tourism this last year due to the world shutting down. Owning and operating an international spiritual tourism company, sending thousands of people around the world each year for journeys abroad, interrupted by a world crisis, well, there's a lot to be said for that. Mix in the music of Taylor Swift, they go on an exploration discussing rising above circumstances, and to find the beauty and/or creating beauty while the "ship" is sinking. Taylor Swift produced not one but two albums this last year. She is a true leader. Carmen Z produced a book of poetry during this time, a saving grace and her "rising above" despite the chaos... turning pain into art is healing. Come, listen, and shake it off...