In this episode of the Ephesiology podcast, Andrew, Michael, and Matt engage with Dr. Wes Watkins to explore the dynamics of church movements, the importance of understanding movements in a contemporary context, and the integration of Motus Dei with Missio Dei. They discuss the characteristics of movements, the role of the Holy Spirit, and the challenges posed by institutionalism. The conversation emphasizes the need for humility, collaboration, and learning from global movements, particularly in the face of declining church attendance in the West. The episode concludes with a call to action for the church to embrace a more dynamic and inclusive understanding of its mission.

Wes Watkins, church movements, missiology, Motus Dei, Missio Dei, discipleship, church planting, Christian movements, ecclesiology

“Church history is serial, not progressive.”

“We need to fight for unity.”

“Ekklesia is who we are, not something we do.”

00:00 Introduction to the Ephesiology Podcast

00:51 Meet Dr. Wes Watkins: Scholar and Missiologist

04:31 Understanding Movements in Christianity

07:35 Defining a Movement: Disciples Making Disciples

09:56 The Phenomenon of Movements: Observations and Methodologies

14:25 Intentionality in Movements: Are They Started or Observed?

19:17 The Role of the Holy Spirit in Movements

22:48 Institutional vs. Movement Paradigms in the Church

24:41 Mission and Movement in the Church

27:58 Reactivating the Church as a Movement

32:31 Integrating Motus Dei with Missio Dei

38:49 The Nature of Ecclesia and Its Identity

44:50 The Importance of Unity in Diversity

48:19 Navigating the Complexity of Church Identity

If this episode encouraged you, please leave a review and share it with others exploring missional living in post-Christian contexts. Thanks for doing theology in community with us today!

If you have a question or topic that you’d like to hear addressed on the Ephesiology Podcast, just send it to Andrew at [email protected].

Michael is the missiologist in residence with East West where he focuses on equipping and empowering church leaders in evangelism, discipleship, leadership, and catalyzing church planting movements in the most difficult to reach places on the planet. He is the author of Ephesiology: The Study of the Ephesian Movement as well as many other books and academic articles. He has lectured at universities around the world and serves as affiliate faculty at Kairos University where he facilitates the degree programs in partnership with Ephesiology Master Classes.

Andrew is a proud husband, father and pastor who desires all to know the one true King. He is honored to serve at West Village Church in Victoria, BC. Previously, he’s ministered in Houston, Chicago, Indy, Flagstaff and Tempe in a variety of church contexts. Andrew has a BA in Christian Ministry from Trinity International University and an MA from Phoenix Seminary. He is currently a Doctor of Ministry student at Kairos University and is the co-host of the Ephesiology Podcast. When not at work, he’s an avid disc golfing, vinyl playing, Spider-Man following/collecting fellow. Go Pacers.

Matt Till has woven together roles as pastor, professor, podcaster, and Emmy Award–winning writer and producer. With over 25 years in ministry—including church planting, higher education and administration, and co-hosting the Ephesiology podcast—he has dedicated his life to engaging people and communities with compassion, justice, and inclusion. Today, as Senior Director for Social Justice and Community Engagement at TelosGO, Matt continues that calling. He and his wife are raising three children in South Florida, where he can often be found reading on the beach, sipping Cuban coffee, or savoring lechón asado with yuca con mojo.

The Ephesiology Podcast comes to you from a desire to engage in community conversations about the intersection of theology and culture. We do not believe such dialogue should come with a cost so the podcast will always be free. 

However, if you’ve benefited from the Ephesiology Podcast, would you consider a nominal $5 per month donation? All proceeds from the podcast go toward helping bring needed theological education to the majority world through our Ephesiology Master Class initiative to end a theological famine. We’d be honored to partner with you to continue providing solid biblical, theological, and missiological content for listeners around the world.

Imagine a world where passionate, equipped Christian leaders spread God’s Word in areas with the greatest need—leaders grounded in both deep theology and practical ministry skills, trained to make a lasting impact in their communities. Through your support, this vision can become a reality for students from countries like Malawi, Tanzania, Kenya, Nepal, and India who are eager to teach and multiply disciple-makers in their own regions.

If you want to understand principles for the growth of Christianity in the first century, the place to begin is the city of Ephesus. In this winsome study, Ephesiology offers readers a comprehensive view of the empowering work of the Holy Spirit in the most significant city of the New Testament, and compels us to ask the question: how can we effectively connect Christ to our culture? 

“Masterfully handling the book of Ephesians and using its content as a definitive guide, Michael Cooper lays a theologically strong foundation that is both corrective and directive to disciple making movements.  The principles he gleans from the book of Ephesians and related texts, help to ensure the on-going multiplication and maturation of a movement. Because these are supra-cultural principles, they are applicable anywhere in the world.”

Marvin J. Newell, Staff Missiologist, Missio Nexus, Author of Crossing Cultures in Scripture

To shift the tracks of history requires leaders who are equipped to critically assess and engage the contours of contemporary culture. As a new initiative in collaboration with the Movement Leaders Collective, Kairos University, and Ephesiology, we deliver just-in-time theological education focused on issues important to you, mxAcademy is designed as the theological and missiological foundation to unlock your potential as a movement leader and catalytic thinker. mxAcademy is a dynamic and innovative educational experience rooted in mDNA.

We dream of a church fully equipped, fully mature, fully mobilized, and fully alive. A church that lives and breathes the Good News of Jesus!

Taking its inspiration from the historical and philosophical legacy of Athens, Greece, the Areopagus Symposium focuses on intellectual and philosophical topics related to Christology, missiology, and ecclesiology. We invite scholars, theologians, and practitioners from diverse backgrounds to engage in a profound exploration of the theological landscape at the intersection of these vital disciplines. Sign up for an Ephesiology Master Classes account and gain free access to the Areopagus Symposium.

The Ephesiology Podcast and Ephesiology Master Classes are ministries of TELOS.GO, a registered 501c3 non-profit agency committed to imaginatively missional ways of engageing culture, church planting, and theological education. Your donation to the podcast is tax deductible.