In this episode of the Ephesiology Podcast, Andrew Johnson, Michael, and guest Lance Ford delve into the themes of church leadership, the disconnect between leadership and the body of Christ, and the systemic issues that plague modern church structures. They discuss the impact of Lance’s book, ‘The Atlas Factor,’ which emphasizes the need for a shift in leadership paradigms, focusing on Jesus as the head of the church rather than human leaders. The conversation also addresses the prevalence of spiritual abuse, the importance of vision and mission in church leadership, and the necessity for systemic change to foster healthier church environments. Lance shares insights on how to navigate leadership challenges, differentiate between bad leadership and narcissism, and the role of the church in addressing these issues. The episode concludes with a call to center on Jesus and the hope for restoration within the church community.

church leadership, Atlas Factor, spiritual abuse, church movement, leadership structures, restoration, community engagement, Jesus, church health

“It’s the system, stupid.”

“We need to start in our seminaries.”

“Jesus is our hero. He is our savior.”

00:00 Introduction to the Ephesiology Podcast

02:45 The Atlas Factor: Leadership in the Church

05:35 Misalignment in Church Leadership Structures

08:49 The Disconnect Between Leadership and the Body of Christ

11:47 The Role of Vision and Mission in the Church

14:26 The Impact of Leadership Models on Church Growth

17:31 Understanding Spiritual Abuse in Church Leadership

20:36 The Consequences of Management Systems in the Church

24:45 The Dark Side of Church Leadership

26:17 Navigating Abuse in Church Settings

34:30 The Role of Systems in Church Leadership

41:06 Building a New Church Leadership Model

47:18 The Future of Church Leadership Education

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If you have a question or topic that you’d like to hear addressed on the Ephesiology Podcast, just send it to Andrew at [email protected].

Michael is the missiologist in residence with East West where he focuses on equipping and empowering church leaders in evangelism, discipleship, leadership, and catalyzing church planting movements in the most difficult to reach places on the planet. He is the author of Ephesiology: The Study of the Ephesian Movement as well as many other books and academic articles. He has lectured at universities around the world and serves as affiliate faculty at Kairos University where he facilitates the degree programs in partnership with Ephesiology Master Classes.

Andrew is a proud husband, father and pastor who desires all to know the one true King. He is honored to serve at West Village Church in Victoria, BC. Previously, he’s ministered in Houston, Chicago, Indy, Flagstaff and Tempe in a variety of church contexts. Andrew has a BA in Christian Ministry from Trinity International University and an MA from Phoenix Seminary. He is currently a Doctor of Ministry student at Kairos University and is the co-host of the Ephesiology Podcast. When not at work, he’s an avid disc golfing, vinyl playing, Spider-Man following/collecting fellow. Go Pacers.

The Ephesiology Podcast comes to you from a desire to engage in community conversations about the intersection of theology and culture. We do not believe such dialogue should come with a cost so the podcast will always be free. 

However, if you’ve benefited from the Ephesiology Podcast, would you consider a nominal $5 per month donation? All proceeds from the podcast go toward helping bring needed theological education to the majority world through our Ephesiology Master Class initiative to end a theological famine. We’d be honored to partner with you to continue providing solid biblical, theological, and missiological content for listeners around the world.

Imagine a world where passionate, equipped Christian leaders spread God’s Word in areas with the greatest need—leaders grounded in both deep theology and practical ministry skills, trained to make a lasting impact in their communities. Through your support, this vision can become a reality for students from countries like Malawi, Tanzania, Kenya, Nepal, and India who are eager to teach and multiply disciple-makers in their own regions.

If you want to understand principles for the growth of Christianity in the first century, the place to begin is the city of Ephesus. In this winsome study, Ephesiology offers readers a comprehensive view of the empowering work of the Holy Spirit in the most significant city of the New Testament, and compels us to ask the question: how can we effectively connect Christ to our culture? 

“Masterfully handling the book of Ephesians and using its content as a definitive guide, Michael Cooper lays a theologically strong foundation that is both corrective and directive to disciple making movements.  The principles he gleans from the book of Ephesians and related texts, help to ensure the on-going multiplication and maturation of a movement. Because these are supra-cultural principles, they are applicable anywhere in the world.”

Marvin J. Newell, Staff Missiologist, Missio Nexus, Author of Crossing Cultures in Scripture

To shift the tracks of history requires leaders who are equipped to critically assess and engage the contours of contemporary culture. As a new initiative in collaboration with the Movement Leaders Collective, Kairos University, and Ephesiology, we deliver just-in-time theological education focused on issues important to you, mxAcademy is designed as the theological and missiological foundation to unlock your potential as a movement leader and catalytic thinker. mxAcademy is a dynamic and innovative educational experience rooted in mDNA.

We dream of a church fully equipped, fully mature, fully mobilized, and fully alive. A church that lives and breathes the Good News of Jesus!

Taking its inspiration from the historical and philosophical legacy of Athens, Greece, the Areopagus Symposium focuses on intellectual and philosophical topics related to Christology, missiology, and ecclesiology. We invite scholars, theologians, and practitioners from diverse backgrounds to engage in a profound exploration of the theological landscape at the intersection of these vital disciplines. Sign up for an Ephesiology Master Classes account and gain free access to the Areopagus Symposium.

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