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Episode 24 - Interview with Dr. Jim Thigpen
In this interview with Dr. Jim Thigpen, Associate Professor of Pharmacy Practice at East Tennessee State University Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy, we discuss his pharmacotherapy course and how to succeed, leadership in pharmacy, and Dr. Thigpen's favorite pastime: fly fishing!
Transcript:
Introduction Teaser
Jim Thigpen
You're in too big of a hurry fishing, you're not going to do well. And if you're in too big of a hurry as a pharmacist, you're going to make mistakes. And that's dangerous. And so learning to be patient and taking your time is important.
Main Episode
Michele Williams
Welcome to White Coat Radio, a podcast from East Tennessee State University Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy in Johnson City, Tennessee. Each episode, we cover a wide range of topics about the pharmacy school experience, from study tips to deep dives with faculty and student pharmacists. I'm one of your hosts, Doctor Michele Williams, assistant professor and director of academic success.
Stephen Woodward
And I'm Stephen Woodward, marketing and communications manager. Today we're joined by Doctor Jim Thigpen, associate professor of pharmacy practice, a pediatric pharmacist by trade whose practice site is Ballad Health’s Niswonger Children’s Hospital, which is located right next to the college. Doctor Thigpen has been with the college essentially from the beginning, starting in 2008 after working as a clinical pharmacist for nearly 15 years.
Stephen Woodward
He is originally from Charleston, South Carolina, and attended Clemson University before going on to pharmacy school at the Medical University of South Carolina. He moved to Johnson City in 1993. Doctor Thigpen coordinates Pharmacy Practice V and Pharmacotherapy III, as well as an Advanced Pediatrics elective course. We hope you enjoy today’s interview.
Michele Williams
What would you like students to know about being successful with your material that you wish they knew—something maybe you don't say out loud in class?
Jim Thigpen
Don't be intimidated by it. You know, don't think that it's that different than what you've learned. About 70% of all the children in the U.S. are cared for by pharmacists that are not pediatric specialists. There are 200 children's hospitals in the United States, and I’d ballpark maybe 2,000 pediatric specialists who work in those hospitals.
Jim Thigpen
But here there’s four in East Tennessee. And so the vast majority of children are going to be seen by pharmacists that are not pediatric‑trained. They all have to have some level of comfort taking care of a child and recognizing the bad things—when they need to go to the ER right now, or when it's something they don’t need to worry about at that moment.
Jim Thigpen
I hope by being exposed to pediatrics through the program, they develop a comfort level so they can say, “Yes, you need to call your doctor,” or “You need to make an appointment,” or “Yes, you need to go to the emergency room,” or “No, we can treat that with Tylenol.”
Jim Thigpen
And just develop a level of comfort with children because you will be somebody’s pharmacist, and somebody will call you at 4:00 in the morning and say, “My son has a fever. What should we do?” And you need to know what to do.
Stephen Woodward
What are the steps that a student right here at Gatton would need to take in order to become a pediatric pharmacist?
Jim Thigpen
You need to get involved with the national organization. If you're serious about pursuing residency in pediatrics, join pediatric pharmacy groups such as the Pediatric Pharmacy Association. They love students—they welcome them at national meetings. Meet people and figure out if that’s what you want.
Jim Thigpen
Pediatrics is limited. Tennessee has children’s hospitals in Johnson City, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Nashville, Memphis. That’s it. You can't be a pediatric pharmacist anywhere—you have to live in a city with a children’s hospital.
Jim Thigpen
Thirty years ago we were in high demand—and still are—but you may have to move.
Jim Thigpen
If you want to do pediatrics, talk to me and talk to preceptors like Robin Modern. Pharmacy is a small world; pediatrics is even smaller. People know each other. It’s about connections and making a good impression.
Jim Thigpen
Residency often means moving. I was going to leave Charleston for a residency at VCU, but we found out we were having a baby, and I didn’t want to take my eight‑months‑pregnant wife to a strange city. That’s the only reason I stayed. I recommend going elsewhere for residency—it’s a good learning opportunity.
Michele Williams
We were talking just a minute ago about the pharmacotherapy series. That’s where your course content primarily lives, right? During the P3 year?
Jim Thigpen
Yes, historically.
Michele Williams
If I were a student about to start the spring P3 year, what advice would you give me to be successful with your course content?
Jim Thigpen
Don’t worry about it. There are probably only three or four drugs that are exclusive to pediatrics. The rest are used in adults and then used in children. About 25% of drugs are FDA‑approved for children; the rest aren’t, but we still use them.
Jim Thigpen
There are only a handful of drugs you’ll need to learn that you don’t already know.
Jim Thigpen
People think pediatrics is so different—it’s really not. A lot of diseases are the same; the drugs are the same. It’s just a little different for children.
Jim Thigpen
You need to develop comfort with acute issues in kids—things you need to be able to recognize. I will drill that into you. If someone calls you in the middle of the night about their kid, you need to know what to tell them—and say it in a way that doesn’t terrify them.
Jim Thigpen
You need to talk to parents—help them give medicine effectively, or explain the importance of managing something like type 1 diabetes. You need to communicate clearly.
Jim Thigpen
Some parents are afraid of vaccines. You need to understand the facts and communicate them without offending them.
Jim Thigpen
Outside of those differences, pediatrics isn’t that different. I highlight the key differences. Don’t be intimidated—but I’ve been doing this for 40 years, so of course I say that.
Stephen Woodward
A few months ago I had the privilege to shadow you in the hospital. I think we often think of pharmacists in the background, but you were in more of a leadership role. Nurses, medical students—they were looking to you for answers. Can you talk about that leadership role?
Jim Thigpen
Well, not trying to be funny, but I'm probably older than everybody there. So it's natural to look up to the old man.
Jim Thigpen
But anyone who’s known me would not say I'm the smartest person in the room. They would say that if they needed help, I’d give it. Brian O’Toole and I worked together for years, and we always tried to help people and make their job easier.
Jim Thigpen
People know I’m someone you can ask without feeling stupid. Medical students especially—they get far less pharmacology than our students do. Some pharmacists make them feel bad for not knowing something. I try very hard not to do that.
Jim Thigpen
I want them to understand the details and feel like they can ask me anything. I try to break the ice—ask where they're from, talk about baseball or fishing or Clemson football—so they don’t see me as “the guy in the white coat.”
Jim Thigpen
For all pharmacists: you're part of the team. You develop a reputation. Students, nurses, doctors—they know whether you’re approachable.
Jim Thigpen
Almost every time I take a student into the NICU, one of the doctors walks up and says, “I’m so glad you’re here—I’ve got a question for you.” It's not scripted—it just happens. They know I’ll help.
Jim Thigpen
It’s not leadership; it’s reputation. If you're nice, people want to ask you questions. If you're not, they'll avoid you.
Jim Thigpen
Don’t ever treat providers condescendingly. They will avoid you forever. Even if they're really messing up, don’t make them feel like they’re messing up. We’ll teach you those skills.
Jim Thigpen
I’ve never thought I was smarter than anybody. I’m usually the dumbest person in the room—but at least I'm willing to help.
Michele Williams
Were you Mr. O’Toole’s specialty?
Jim Thigpen
He was internal medicine. But he was a special person. If you knew him, you loved him.
Jim Thigpen
I better stop before I get emotional.
Stephen Woodward
Well, that’s a great transition to fly fishing.
Jim Thigpen
Yeah, gives me a chance to clear my throat.
Stephen Woodward
Everyone knows you love fly fishing. What is it about fly fishing that pulls you?
Jim Thigpen
I always liked fishing—bluegills and catfish as a kid. I never fly‑fished until I moved to Tennessee. A pharmacist I worked with took me in 1993. First time out, we fished for a while with no luck, and then suddenly the fish went nuts. I caught six in 15 minutes and said, “I’m done, I need to buy a fly rod.” It was magical.
Jim Thigpen
Fly fishing is technical. It’s rhythmic—like in A River Runs Through It. It’s comforting. And trout live in beautiful places—the Watauga, the South Holston, Beaver Dam Creek. It’s just pretty.
Jim Thigpen
There have been days I've caught more fish than I can count—and days I’ve caught one or two, and felt just as rewarded. Catching fish is gravy.
Michele Williams
It sounds like you’d recommend fly fishing. What could a student pharmacist learn from fly fishing that applies to the profession?
Jim Thigpen
Attention to detail. That’s important for pharmacists. Fly fishing requires the right size, the right color, matching the insect. You need patience. If you're in too big of a hurry fishing, you won’t do well. If you're in too big a hurry as a pharmacist, you'll make mistakes—and that's dangerous.
Jim Thigpen
You need to pay attention. Sometimes I wasn’t catching anything and realized I wasn’t paying attention to which insects were around. I kept using the wrong fly. Then I switched and suddenly caught fish.
Jim Thigpen
Attention to detail and taking your time—both are important as a pharmacist.
Michele Williams
When you talked about matching the fly to the insect, it made me think about pharmacists finding “just the right” answer.
Jim Thigpen
Yes. In a perfect world you always use the best option—but the world’s not perfect. Sometimes the patient can’t afford the best medicine. You have to figure out what will get the job done. It’s problem-solving.
Jim Thigpen
We want students to develop critical thinking. Same with fishing—you use something similar if you don't have the perfect fly. Sometimes you choose something that isn’t your first choice but fits the situation.
Stephen Woodward
You should use that with pre‑pharmacy students. Can you talk about advice you give students interested in pharmacy?
Jim Thigpen
I've had this conversation hundreds of times. I never sugarcoat the profession. You don’t have to be a chemistry expert. I made two Cs in organic chemistry and was glad to get them. You do need problem‑solving skills.
Jim Thigpen
Most importantly, you need to communicate. Patients, parents—you must explain what you're thinking in a way they understand and feel heard.
Jim Thigpen
Talk to as many people as you can about the profession. See what you're getting into. Maybe get a job in a pharmacy. There are many paths—you don’t have to work retail. I never did. I worked in hospital pharmacy.
Jim Thigpen
But healthcare carries responsibility. If my son messes up at his job and loses the company half a million dollars, he might get fired—but he didn’t kill anyone. Healthcare is different. The stakes are higher.
Jim Thigpen
The most rewarding parts of my career: seeing parents relax because I'm helping their doctors make good decisions, and seeing students or residents understand something better because of my teaching. Being part of the team for 35 years—that’s rewarding.
Jim Thigpen
I enjoy interacting with the doctors, nurses, everyone. We all help each other and support each other when bad things happen.
Stephen Woodward
That really came across when I shadowed you. It was incredible to watch.
Jim Thigpen
Experience helps. I’ve been there a long time. Only one pharmacist at the medical center has been there longer than me. I've been here 32 or 33 years. I don’t know how it happened.
Michele Williams
It really comes across—you still have enthusiasm and passion. Students love working with you.
Jim Thigpen
I try to have fun along the way. Serious business, but jokes and cutting up with people make difficult days more tolerable. I encourage students to get to know the team—it makes everything more rewarding.
Stephen Woodward
Were you an inaugural faculty member?
Jim Thigpen
Not the first group. They started July of ’07. I started March of ’08.
Stephen Woodward
The college is celebrating its 20th anniversary. Can you talk about how you came to Gatton?
Jim Thigpen
I moved to Johnson City in ’93. I’d been doing the same job for almost 15 years and knew I didn’t want to be an administrator. I didn’t have anywhere else to go in that position.
Jim Thigpen
Larry Calhoun is the reason I came to Johnson City. I thought it’d be fun to work with him again. Maybe they’d need a pediatric specialist. I had taught some at the College of Nursing and College of Medicine, so I felt comfortable teaching.
Jim Thigpen
It was a transition from full‑time clinical to full‑time academia with clinical work. It wasn’t a big change—but it was a good opportunity. People said, “You just wanted to work with Brian O’Toole again.” That was a bonus.
Jim Thigpen
If the College of Pharmacy hadn’t opened, I’d still be at the med center. I never would have left—because we love living here. Coming to Gatton was probably the second-best decision of my life. The first was moving to Johnson City.
Stephen Woodward
Well, Doctor Thigpen, we really appreciate you coming.
Jim Thigpen
Certainly. It’s good to be here.
Michele Williams
It’s a great conversation—no surprise at all.
Jim Thigpen
Everybody says, “Do you have a story for every drug?” And I say, pretty much. If you've done it long enough, you have an experience for everything.
Michele Williams
And a good story too, I’m sure.
Stephen Woodward
Thanks for listening to White Coat Radio. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about East Tennessee State University Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy, visit us at etsu.com/pharmacy or follow us on social media @ETSUPharmacy. We'll see you next time.
View all episodes
By East Tennessee State UniversityIn this interview with Dr. Jim Thigpen, Associate Professor of Pharmacy Practice at East Tennessee State University Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy, we discuss his pharmacotherapy course and how to succeed, leadership in pharmacy, and Dr. Thigpen's favorite pastime: fly fishing!
Transcript:
Introduction Teaser
Jim Thigpen
You're in too big of a hurry fishing, you're not going to do well. And if you're in too big of a hurry as a pharmacist, you're going to make mistakes. And that's dangerous. And so learning to be patient and taking your time is important.
Main Episode
Michele Williams
Welcome to White Coat Radio, a podcast from East Tennessee State University Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy in Johnson City, Tennessee. Each episode, we cover a wide range of topics about the pharmacy school experience, from study tips to deep dives with faculty and student pharmacists. I'm one of your hosts, Doctor Michele Williams, assistant professor and director of academic success.
Stephen Woodward
And I'm Stephen Woodward, marketing and communications manager. Today we're joined by Doctor Jim Thigpen, associate professor of pharmacy practice, a pediatric pharmacist by trade whose practice site is Ballad Health’s Niswonger Children’s Hospital, which is located right next to the college. Doctor Thigpen has been with the college essentially from the beginning, starting in 2008 after working as a clinical pharmacist for nearly 15 years.
Stephen Woodward
He is originally from Charleston, South Carolina, and attended Clemson University before going on to pharmacy school at the Medical University of South Carolina. He moved to Johnson City in 1993. Doctor Thigpen coordinates Pharmacy Practice V and Pharmacotherapy III, as well as an Advanced Pediatrics elective course. We hope you enjoy today’s interview.
Michele Williams
What would you like students to know about being successful with your material that you wish they knew—something maybe you don't say out loud in class?
Jim Thigpen
Don't be intimidated by it. You know, don't think that it's that different than what you've learned. About 70% of all the children in the U.S. are cared for by pharmacists that are not pediatric specialists. There are 200 children's hospitals in the United States, and I’d ballpark maybe 2,000 pediatric specialists who work in those hospitals.
Jim Thigpen
But here there’s four in East Tennessee. And so the vast majority of children are going to be seen by pharmacists that are not pediatric‑trained. They all have to have some level of comfort taking care of a child and recognizing the bad things—when they need to go to the ER right now, or when it's something they don’t need to worry about at that moment.
Jim Thigpen
I hope by being exposed to pediatrics through the program, they develop a comfort level so they can say, “Yes, you need to call your doctor,” or “You need to make an appointment,” or “Yes, you need to go to the emergency room,” or “No, we can treat that with Tylenol.”
Jim Thigpen
And just develop a level of comfort with children because you will be somebody’s pharmacist, and somebody will call you at 4:00 in the morning and say, “My son has a fever. What should we do?” And you need to know what to do.
Stephen Woodward
What are the steps that a student right here at Gatton would need to take in order to become a pediatric pharmacist?
Jim Thigpen
You need to get involved with the national organization. If you're serious about pursuing residency in pediatrics, join pediatric pharmacy groups such as the Pediatric Pharmacy Association. They love students—they welcome them at national meetings. Meet people and figure out if that’s what you want.
Jim Thigpen
Pediatrics is limited. Tennessee has children’s hospitals in Johnson City, Knoxville, Chattanooga, Nashville, Memphis. That’s it. You can't be a pediatric pharmacist anywhere—you have to live in a city with a children’s hospital.
Jim Thigpen
Thirty years ago we were in high demand—and still are—but you may have to move.
Jim Thigpen
If you want to do pediatrics, talk to me and talk to preceptors like Robin Modern. Pharmacy is a small world; pediatrics is even smaller. People know each other. It’s about connections and making a good impression.
Jim Thigpen
Residency often means moving. I was going to leave Charleston for a residency at VCU, but we found out we were having a baby, and I didn’t want to take my eight‑months‑pregnant wife to a strange city. That’s the only reason I stayed. I recommend going elsewhere for residency—it’s a good learning opportunity.
Michele Williams
We were talking just a minute ago about the pharmacotherapy series. That’s where your course content primarily lives, right? During the P3 year?
Jim Thigpen
Yes, historically.
Michele Williams
If I were a student about to start the spring P3 year, what advice would you give me to be successful with your course content?
Jim Thigpen
Don’t worry about it. There are probably only three or four drugs that are exclusive to pediatrics. The rest are used in adults and then used in children. About 25% of drugs are FDA‑approved for children; the rest aren’t, but we still use them.
Jim Thigpen
There are only a handful of drugs you’ll need to learn that you don’t already know.
Jim Thigpen
People think pediatrics is so different—it’s really not. A lot of diseases are the same; the drugs are the same. It’s just a little different for children.
Jim Thigpen
You need to develop comfort with acute issues in kids—things you need to be able to recognize. I will drill that into you. If someone calls you in the middle of the night about their kid, you need to know what to tell them—and say it in a way that doesn’t terrify them.
Jim Thigpen
You need to talk to parents—help them give medicine effectively, or explain the importance of managing something like type 1 diabetes. You need to communicate clearly.
Jim Thigpen
Some parents are afraid of vaccines. You need to understand the facts and communicate them without offending them.
Jim Thigpen
Outside of those differences, pediatrics isn’t that different. I highlight the key differences. Don’t be intimidated—but I’ve been doing this for 40 years, so of course I say that.
Stephen Woodward
A few months ago I had the privilege to shadow you in the hospital. I think we often think of pharmacists in the background, but you were in more of a leadership role. Nurses, medical students—they were looking to you for answers. Can you talk about that leadership role?
Jim Thigpen
Well, not trying to be funny, but I'm probably older than everybody there. So it's natural to look up to the old man.
Jim Thigpen
But anyone who’s known me would not say I'm the smartest person in the room. They would say that if they needed help, I’d give it. Brian O’Toole and I worked together for years, and we always tried to help people and make their job easier.
Jim Thigpen
People know I’m someone you can ask without feeling stupid. Medical students especially—they get far less pharmacology than our students do. Some pharmacists make them feel bad for not knowing something. I try very hard not to do that.
Jim Thigpen
I want them to understand the details and feel like they can ask me anything. I try to break the ice—ask where they're from, talk about baseball or fishing or Clemson football—so they don’t see me as “the guy in the white coat.”
Jim Thigpen
For all pharmacists: you're part of the team. You develop a reputation. Students, nurses, doctors—they know whether you’re approachable.
Jim Thigpen
Almost every time I take a student into the NICU, one of the doctors walks up and says, “I’m so glad you’re here—I’ve got a question for you.” It's not scripted—it just happens. They know I’ll help.
Jim Thigpen
It’s not leadership; it’s reputation. If you're nice, people want to ask you questions. If you're not, they'll avoid you.
Jim Thigpen
Don’t ever treat providers condescendingly. They will avoid you forever. Even if they're really messing up, don’t make them feel like they’re messing up. We’ll teach you those skills.
Jim Thigpen
I’ve never thought I was smarter than anybody. I’m usually the dumbest person in the room—but at least I'm willing to help.
Michele Williams
Were you Mr. O’Toole’s specialty?
Jim Thigpen
He was internal medicine. But he was a special person. If you knew him, you loved him.
Jim Thigpen
I better stop before I get emotional.
Stephen Woodward
Well, that’s a great transition to fly fishing.
Jim Thigpen
Yeah, gives me a chance to clear my throat.
Stephen Woodward
Everyone knows you love fly fishing. What is it about fly fishing that pulls you?
Jim Thigpen
I always liked fishing—bluegills and catfish as a kid. I never fly‑fished until I moved to Tennessee. A pharmacist I worked with took me in 1993. First time out, we fished for a while with no luck, and then suddenly the fish went nuts. I caught six in 15 minutes and said, “I’m done, I need to buy a fly rod.” It was magical.
Jim Thigpen
Fly fishing is technical. It’s rhythmic—like in A River Runs Through It. It’s comforting. And trout live in beautiful places—the Watauga, the South Holston, Beaver Dam Creek. It’s just pretty.
Jim Thigpen
There have been days I've caught more fish than I can count—and days I’ve caught one or two, and felt just as rewarded. Catching fish is gravy.
Michele Williams
It sounds like you’d recommend fly fishing. What could a student pharmacist learn from fly fishing that applies to the profession?
Jim Thigpen
Attention to detail. That’s important for pharmacists. Fly fishing requires the right size, the right color, matching the insect. You need patience. If you're in too big of a hurry fishing, you won’t do well. If you're in too big a hurry as a pharmacist, you'll make mistakes—and that's dangerous.
Jim Thigpen
You need to pay attention. Sometimes I wasn’t catching anything and realized I wasn’t paying attention to which insects were around. I kept using the wrong fly. Then I switched and suddenly caught fish.
Jim Thigpen
Attention to detail and taking your time—both are important as a pharmacist.
Michele Williams
When you talked about matching the fly to the insect, it made me think about pharmacists finding “just the right” answer.
Jim Thigpen
Yes. In a perfect world you always use the best option—but the world’s not perfect. Sometimes the patient can’t afford the best medicine. You have to figure out what will get the job done. It’s problem-solving.
Jim Thigpen
We want students to develop critical thinking. Same with fishing—you use something similar if you don't have the perfect fly. Sometimes you choose something that isn’t your first choice but fits the situation.
Stephen Woodward
You should use that with pre‑pharmacy students. Can you talk about advice you give students interested in pharmacy?
Jim Thigpen
I've had this conversation hundreds of times. I never sugarcoat the profession. You don’t have to be a chemistry expert. I made two Cs in organic chemistry and was glad to get them. You do need problem‑solving skills.
Jim Thigpen
Most importantly, you need to communicate. Patients, parents—you must explain what you're thinking in a way they understand and feel heard.
Jim Thigpen
Talk to as many people as you can about the profession. See what you're getting into. Maybe get a job in a pharmacy. There are many paths—you don’t have to work retail. I never did. I worked in hospital pharmacy.
Jim Thigpen
But healthcare carries responsibility. If my son messes up at his job and loses the company half a million dollars, he might get fired—but he didn’t kill anyone. Healthcare is different. The stakes are higher.
Jim Thigpen
The most rewarding parts of my career: seeing parents relax because I'm helping their doctors make good decisions, and seeing students or residents understand something better because of my teaching. Being part of the team for 35 years—that’s rewarding.
Jim Thigpen
I enjoy interacting with the doctors, nurses, everyone. We all help each other and support each other when bad things happen.
Stephen Woodward
That really came across when I shadowed you. It was incredible to watch.
Jim Thigpen
Experience helps. I’ve been there a long time. Only one pharmacist at the medical center has been there longer than me. I've been here 32 or 33 years. I don’t know how it happened.
Michele Williams
It really comes across—you still have enthusiasm and passion. Students love working with you.
Jim Thigpen
I try to have fun along the way. Serious business, but jokes and cutting up with people make difficult days more tolerable. I encourage students to get to know the team—it makes everything more rewarding.
Stephen Woodward
Were you an inaugural faculty member?
Jim Thigpen
Not the first group. They started July of ’07. I started March of ’08.
Stephen Woodward
The college is celebrating its 20th anniversary. Can you talk about how you came to Gatton?
Jim Thigpen
I moved to Johnson City in ’93. I’d been doing the same job for almost 15 years and knew I didn’t want to be an administrator. I didn’t have anywhere else to go in that position.
Jim Thigpen
Larry Calhoun is the reason I came to Johnson City. I thought it’d be fun to work with him again. Maybe they’d need a pediatric specialist. I had taught some at the College of Nursing and College of Medicine, so I felt comfortable teaching.
Jim Thigpen
It was a transition from full‑time clinical to full‑time academia with clinical work. It wasn’t a big change—but it was a good opportunity. People said, “You just wanted to work with Brian O’Toole again.” That was a bonus.
Jim Thigpen
If the College of Pharmacy hadn’t opened, I’d still be at the med center. I never would have left—because we love living here. Coming to Gatton was probably the second-best decision of my life. The first was moving to Johnson City.
Stephen Woodward
Well, Doctor Thigpen, we really appreciate you coming.
Jim Thigpen
Certainly. It’s good to be here.
Michele Williams
It’s a great conversation—no surprise at all.
Jim Thigpen
Everybody says, “Do you have a story for every drug?” And I say, pretty much. If you've done it long enough, you have an experience for everything.
Michele Williams
And a good story too, I’m sure.
Stephen Woodward
Thanks for listening to White Coat Radio. If you haven't already, be sure to subscribe and leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about East Tennessee State University Bill Gatton College of Pharmacy, visit us at etsu.com/pharmacy or follow us on social media @ETSUPharmacy. We'll see you next time.