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In this episode I talk about my many years of Zen meditation practice and relate my experience to the development of a sceptical, secular Zen that is rooted in contemporary western culture – with an emphasis on empirical investigation, naturalism rather than supernaturalism, and minimal ritual. I relate this development to the twin functions of teaching and learning - that is, transmission and transformation – as first suggested by the Brazilian philosopher of education, Paolo Freire. I suggest that it is possible to develop a secular twenty-first century approach to Zen that is not bound by the hierarchical power structures of earlier forms of Zen.