On this episode we speak with Jill Webb, an attorney with the Tulsa County Public Defender's office. She gives us a tour of how the real criminal justice system is different from popular ideas about police and the courts, embodied by shows like Law and Order.

Extra links:

• Where Americans are sent to prison most (New York Times)
• The Cost Trap: How Excessive Fees Lock Oklahomans Into the Criminal Justice System without Boosting State Revenue: Executive Summary (OK Policy)