Ken Johnson (@cktricky) abandons the podcast this week to attend a conference and play business, so Seth (@sethlaw) bring in Cloud Security Partners CTO John Poulin (@forced_request) as a co-host. John and Seth start off by discussing the difference in virtual and in-person training. This is followed by two articles. The first is from CrankySec, where the idea that security isn't valued over other technical business aspects. The second article is from Keith Hoodlet (also a podcast guest) detailing why staying technical as a manager is something any of us should strive towards (and how to do it).