Cliff sits down with Phil Rafle of 21st Century Programming — makers of ROM, the Recycling Operations Manager software that Tungco has relied on for over 20 years. Phil has been with the company for 22 of its 26 years, and this episode is equal parts software deep-dive and long-term partnership retrospective.

They cover how Tungco went from running on Excel to a full ROM implementation signed nervously at an ISRI convention, what ROM Infinite brings to the next generation of scrap operations, how GPS geofencing and AI are already changing how recyclers run their yards, and why the honest answer about AI grading material is: it only sees the top of the pile. Plus a very raspy Phil who sounds, as Cliff puts it, soft and buttery. 

Hosted by Cliff Nance of Tungco — where hard work meets honest talk about leadership, innovation, and what it takes to build something that lasts.