The grass is always greener on the other side, but we have a little talk with Gary Hockin and regular guest Jacques Woodcock about the pros and cons of going up and down the chain of command in the developer world. After all, it doesn’t just need to be a one-way street.

We also talk about a few general bits, like whether PHP 5.7 should have happened, should we cry over spilled constructors and Gary bangs on for ages about how Waterfall is better than Agile.