In case you haven't heard, DevOps is dead. Again. To discuss its demise, Coté talks with Andrew Clay Shafer. They talk about a lot more: Andrew's new company, working with executives, sociotechnical systems, Andrew's recent SREcon talk in Amsterdam, and more.

You can also watch the live recording of this episoded, unedited! It has a discussion of Coté's podcast making recommendations at the start.

Check out Andrew and friend's new company, Ergonautic, and, find him in Twitter as @littleidea.

Special Guest: Andrew Clay Shafer.