Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we review "The Morning Show" season 2. This season is pretty heavy with themes of substance abuse, toxic relationships and Mitch Kessler's [SPOILER ALERT] death by suicide. We spend time discussing cancel culture and the complexities of the human experience. We also explore Cory's charcter, is he hypomanic? Or is it more of an ADHD presentation we are seeing? Who does Bradley choose? Is everyone in love with their mother? Listen now to your favorite TV loving shrinks for our full break down. We hope you enjoy!

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Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fury, a psychiatrist.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And your DSM Five and enjoy. We get started. We just wanted to include a trigger warning for this episode. This episode could include discussion about some themes and topics that might be upsetting, including, but not limited to things like substance abuse, suicide, self harm, disordered, eating, and harassment and assault. So if any of those topics are too upsetting, we totally get it. Please feel free to skip this episode and join us next week. Otherwise, we hope you enjoyed.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Thanks for joining us today to cover the Morning Show season Two. If you have not listened to our take on season one, feel free to scroll back a couple episodes in our feed. Season two did come out in September of 2021, which was kind of in, like right. The throes still of COVID I mean, not like the Lockdown, which this show oh, my God. With that visual of New York City, which was eerie, to say the least. But did you watch this in real time?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: No, I think I watched it last year, maybe, but rewatching it again. I had, like, a visceral reaction to all of the COVID stuff. What about you?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was weird. I really like and we talked about this about season one, how they show, right? Like, real time things. And it's so funny thinking back to hearing about, you know, it was like, in more of the Asian countries in Asia. It was kind of, like, sprinkling through. And I remember having some friends traveling internationally and being like, yeah, it was weird. Like, a lot of people are wearing masks, not domestically. And then all of a sudden, it was here, right? And it was like this very March white. I don't know, like, the grocery stores were full, and then they were empty. Schools were open and they were closed. It wasn't a smooth transition. Oh, this is coming. It was just like, okay, we're making this decision.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Oh, my gosh. I remember I'm so ashamed to admit this, but I was supposed to go on a bachelorette party to New Orleans, like, right in mid March, and it was for my very good friend, Dr. Kristen Heisel, an infectious disease physician at Mass General Hospital, so you can imagine what her March 2020 turned into. But as the news of COVID was, like, trickling in, I remember sitting in the psychiatrist talking to a colleague being like, this is just going to be like ebola where we all freaked out. And then it was fine. And I was like, trying to tell myself this because I really wanted to go on this Bachelorete trip and I feel so selfish saying that. Should we cut that? Like, does that make me look at.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I can share a similar thing.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But then my friend kristen called me after they had this super secret meeting at MGH and was like, we're not like, you need to go to the grocery store immediately. This is like a really big deal. Harvard is preparing. They've talked to like, this is going to be a really serious thing. And I was like, oh, my god. And then two days later, yeah, everything shut down.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's funny because I was in DC. In February, like mid February, and there was still nothing. I don't know which speech I know that's not the right word for it was happening, but everyone in congress and the senate were there and it was really busy and it was fine. The airports were all good. But then I ended up having to come back from puerto Rico early. So I've told this story, obviously to my friends, but for my new friends out there listening. So we had been here and meeting family down in puerto Rico who had missed it by three days of what was kind of happening. And we were like, should we go? Should we not? And we're on the airplane, it's about to take off. They shut the door and everyone's like, phone alerts start to go off if you have news alerts. And it was that all international travel was stopped and we weren't going internationally. But I was immediately like, I need to get off this plane. Obviously I couldn't. So we went to Puerto Rico. We told our family that was down there and they just did not get it's. The like, this isn't a big deal. Why is everyone up there freaking out? Brian were like, my partner and I were like, how can you not understand? The grocery stores are empty. So we ended up flying home early and thank goodness we did because the island closed down. There was a ship in the port there from Italy that had some italian travelers that were sick and so it was just chaos. And then I remember coming back to work on Monday and we closed, right? So we had this meeting of how we were going to handle it. Everyone took their laptops and we went home. And then I never went back to that job.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yeah, it was scary. I don't know, I feel like triggered watching this show and all the COVID stuff. It's like hard for me to watch. I notice kind of like not looking at the empty street. It's just like really hard for me to watch. I thought they did a magnificent job, though, covering it and how they had Daniel, the lone wolf, sort of like raising the alarm and seeing how Mia, who's now in Chip's old role, is kind know, not covering, know, choosing other stories to cover instead. And then they send him to China, right?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And he is just like in the throes of it being like, this is serious. They keep giving him a short segment, they cut his segment, he's like but.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It'S so symbolic of how we were all thinking about it until it was really serious, right? And then we sort of see the COVID sprinkled in, I thought, even starting with New Year's Eve and how joyous it all was, like, woohoo.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: 2020.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And now as we watch it, you're just like, if we all knew what was coming. And then they still sort of sprinkle in COVID throughout the whole season as it builds. And I enjoyed how they kept reminding us of the date. Like, oh, Alex comes back February 20. And I was like, oh my God, that's like three weeks before it's going to start. And then her last day was like March, I don't know, like 14th or something, right? Like, it just kept building and building and building till we see Alex with COVID and we see Bradley, like, rushing into the Er to find her brother in the chaos of the emergency room with COVID cases. And it was just like, we see them all go home and trying to figure out contact tracing and Corey with.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: The and being silly with like, I don't know what that know?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Well, we didn't know what it meant. And Corey's like, can you stand can you step back? 6ft, right? Oh my God.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was such like an awkward time because I think everyone it was new social norms that we all had to just adopt and everyone had their own length of time for getting on board with specific social norms or not. And I think it was just like, there's a lot of awkward interactions with people.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think what I found personally interesting as a physician and as a psychiatrist, as the time when it all hit, I was still doing some moonlighting at a local hospital and fortunately that was like extra work. And so as soon as I started to feel unsafe, I stopped. And I had a lot of guilt over that, but certainly I had a couple of shifts. I never will forget how scared I felt because I didn't have enough PPE. And I remember nurses coming in and smuggling in masks to each other and saying, don't tell the supervisor. And we were trying to figure out, as a psychiatrist, what do you do when there's a code and you don't know if the patient's COVID positive? Like a behavioral code, agitation, delirium, things like that, that you get called for in the middle of the night, like, how close do you get? How close do you not get? We didn't know yet how is it transmitted? How does it affect if you have history of asthma, how does it affect you? How does it affect kids? All of that stuff. I just will never forget being so scared. And I remember leaving one of those shifts and realizing, like, I can't do this right? Like, I'm terrified. And one of the nurses being like, Dr. Fury, are you okay? And I was like, no, I'm really not. And then I think as a physician, realizing this is really serious, during that time when everyone was trying to figure out, like, do we really need to stay home? Do we really need to stock up? And when people were like, oh, it's just 60 days lockdown. And I was like, this is going to be years, and it's just hard to watch.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It was an interesting theme, like, you said that even I know one of the producers who went up to Mia with one of like it was a COVID story about a number going up, but there was also, like, three other things happening that day. And she was like, Nope. No, we're not running that story. And it's just right. Like, they didn't and then all of a sudden, it was the most important thing, right? Like, in mid March, everyone that's all anyone could talk about. And I remember, funnily enough, with the morning show being like, right, a news network. I'm just not, like, a news watcher. And I watched the news, right, for like, 72 hours when things had locked down. And then I was like, this isn't.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So great for my mental mental health.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, but it was wild.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It was wild.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Dr what was it? Fauci. And then that woman with the scar, Deborah.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And just watching them try to keep their composure. I'll never forget that. Meme going around with Dr. Fauci, like, touching his forehead in frustration and being like, you know, it's bad when the man telling you don't touch anything is like touching its head in frustration, right? And they showed clips of Dr. Fauci in this. So the season does culminate with COVID and I'm really interested to see now that we know season three is about to come out, like, how does that evolve? But there was a whole lot more in season two, and I have no idea how we're going to cover it.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: All in this know? So so we have some new characters. We have Stella, who's the new president of the news division.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think she took Cory's job.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yep.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And then Corey took Fred's job, right, because they fired Fred.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah, that was a little I mean, it became clear, but right at the end of season one, it seemed like Corey was going to be let go, and then they ended up letting Fred go. And then Corey stepped into that role, which is what he wanted, right. And I think he kind of set some things up so that happened.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I think also we come to find out he's kind of in cahoots with right? Like, it kind of sounded like I was a little confused by this, but it kind of seemed like Bradley thought she walked in and said, I'm not coming back if you don't rehire Corey. And then they did. But then we sort of found out later on that Fred was like, corey should be my successor and give me all this money. And then he's maybe pulling some strings in the background. So he's like gone but not really gone. That kind of confused me.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Corey is an interesting guy.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Do you think he's hypomanic?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He is something. He is so animated and constantly hyper and activated. I just want to know his routine off when he's not at work. We saw some of his exercise routine.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: When I saw that I was like, I think he's hypomanic constantly on the go. But explain that a little bit.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So when we think about hypomania, what we mean by that clinically is when you think about depression, we think about people who have clinical symptoms of depression for two weeks or more. That's where your mood is lower than your average baseline. We all have mood fluctuations over the course of our life, but when you're feeling depressed, your mood is way too low. Now, the flip side of that is something we call mania. This is what we see when you have something called bipolar disorder where not only do you have the depressive episodes, but then you also have the manic episodes where your mood is way too high, right? Like, you don't need sleep. You're talking a mile a minute. You have all these big grandiose ideas. You're really impulsive.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And people can tell.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: People can tell when you are fully manic. That's a psychiatric emergency. You need to go to the emergency room. A lot of times people end up getting hurt either because they're doing something really risky like skateboarding down a highway or something or because they're using substances or sex, gambling, spending money, things like that. There's something in between what we call euthymia, which is like a typical normal baseline mood. You still have fluctuations because you're human, but it's all within a controlled range of feelings. It never dips too low or too high. Mania is like the highest you ever get. Hypomania is kind of like halfway in between. And some people with hypomania function really well in society. Like maybe corey, right. Like, maybe he only needs 4 hours of sleep. Cool. He can get a lot more work done. Maybe he has boundless energy, but he's not like, talking way too fast or having really big ideas that are people with mania might write their memoirs on postit notes and put them all over their room, for example. He's not really behaving like that outside the norm. But sometimes people with hypomania are really successful and productive because they just don't need as much sleep, and they have more energy than the average person. He also could be abusing stimulants or something.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He could be and sometimes I think there's that little edge or overlapping, also, potentially, of ADHD, just like, really hyperactive. You know, what if you have ADHD? Some of the symptoms with mania are not presenting, though. But just that on the go. And we think about people who, in adulthood often find careers that do fit better if you have attention hyperactive or you're inattentive. It's hard when you're a child. I know I'm taking a little bit of a left turn here because school is pretty much the same. Right? We have expectations for everything. But when you get into adulthood, there's so many hands on careers. There's so many careers that you can be on the go that we see people typically be able to function a little bit better with that. So even I'm wondering for him, right. He's constantly being stimulated. He's constantly thinking of these things. So it's like that's a great point. He's got something, though.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Man, I'd love to evaluate him. He also has a history with his mom, which we won't get into all the details. Please watch the show. But which clearly influences his behavior and his love, it seems like, for Bradley. One thing I thought season two did a really interesting job of is, like, depicting how they're all falling in love with who I imagine their parents were. Right. I don't know. What did you think? Did you pick up on that at all?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Or, like, with Bradley. Right. It's like, for me, I felt like Laura was someone she never had. Right. Like, safe. She was really empathetic, really nurturing, really sweet, kind, really good advice, really validating, not dismissive. And then it's just, like, interesting now with, like, in the mix. It's like, who know in season three, I guess, where does and it's like it depends on, I think, where she is with herself and doing work or not. Because I would say and again, this is just like a guess if she hasn't done work on herself, I could see her picking Corey, and if she has, then it's like Laura.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So I think it's going to be Cory.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: What did you think about that scene with Laura and Bradley where Laura was encouraging Bradley to go to therapy?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought it was excellent.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. I thought it was so gentle. Yeah.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: You're crazy. You need to go to therapy, or you need to get over this, so you should go to therapy. It was just, like, very like, it seems like you need to talk about this, or you need some support, you need someone to help you figure this out. Stuff with your brother.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yes. After her brother Hal. And we'll get into this a little more later. That depiction of being the sibling of someone with an active addiction coming from a dysfunctional home life, we'll definitely get into all of that. But I thought the way Laura so, like, validated how hard all of that was for Bradley and said, I think you need some help figuring this out. Have you tried? Therapy was just such a nice way to bring it up. And then I thought it was so honest when Bradley was like, I think they're going to tell me I'm crazy, I'm scared. And I was like, girl, me too. I hear you. I think we all feel like that, right?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And what a great Know line for her to say, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I thought that was such a beautiful depiction of sort of like a nice way to encourage someone you love to seek help and a really nice way to introduce a really tough concept of boundaries and when is it time to walk away? That's hard.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: That's hard. And I think in the spirit of therapy, everyone could use it on the Know. I think Mia certainly needs some support. I mean, what a complicated loss she is experiencing. Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It's like Mitch, you mean?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And even just of this distance, right, of just know, fall from grace as a loss, his loss of the show and then ultimately, right, like his death and then reporting on it and you can see her tearing up. But knowing that he also did all these horrible things and know had come out in this episode, these questions around, like, was he praying specifically on black mean? I just was like, Mia, I would love to I don't just I really like her character. I really empathize with her and I would love for her to get all the support she can. She seems like she's throwing herself into work, which is the job. I mean, I think it just is what it is.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: At the end of season one, he looked so haggard and disheveled and exhausted. And I was like, you are like, going to collapse at the beginning of season two. He looks great. He's like well groomed. He's engaged. He's got this beautiful little house.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He's driving a Subaru.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: He's probably getting 8 hours of sleep a night. He's probably exercising. Maybe he's playing pickleball. Like, he looks so good. And it was fascinating to me how he so early on told Bradley, like, if I ever talk to Alex again, I got a lot to say to her. But then when she shows up and asks him to come back, he's like, okay, yeah. Why do you think he did that?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know if it was a selfish, not like, self seeking, self serving thing where it's like, I do want to be a bigger producer, right? Like, I'm this little smaller station and this is really my world. Or was it his connection with Alex? Does he think he owes her? Is there, like you had mentioned before, a trauma bond with like I don't know if it was for I mean, it could be all of those things at the same time. So what about you?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I think my theory is that I do think, like, near the end when they have that knockout fight in the car where they're really raging at each other and she mentions that she feels like he's in love with her and she doesn't love him like, that that got me thinking, like, is that true? Especially because then when he was making out with his fiance and was like, let's go do it in Alex's office, and that is kind of creepy.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It got me thinking, like, was his mom, like Alex? Did he have a self centered, narcissistic mother who was constantly absent or critical? And is he seeking that validation unconsciously?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But is he seeking that approval, that acceptance, that validation in a super unhealthy way? That's what I think. So I'd love him to get some therapy too. And I think what we were talking.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: About with who Bradley will choose based on her own internal path, I think same with like, if he is a well self, he's going to choose his current right like life, right. Working at the smaller station with his this this quiet, healthier, seemingly life, but maybe not so big and showy, right? Like you could see him kind of being pulled back and back and back into this abusive relationship.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. And we see that with how in that final scene or the final episode when Alex is on air with COVID which was weird that he lied and said he tested positive too. So he's like, totally around her. He could have just put a mask on if he could find one. I guess back then they were hard to find, but we see his fiance call and he declines it.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: He also then puts something on the prompter that Alex wasn't expecting, which is like, so are you getting back at her or you just like it was confusing of where they're going to land.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: 100% because in so many ways, their relationship continued evolving in a very raw, honest way. But then we continued to see the power dynamic stay the same when she FaceTimes him.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right. Initially from bed and after, they are still not okay. They had just had that big fight in the car. And then she's like, very sick. He's being kind, but he gets sucked.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Into her again and again. And she keeps using him as a narcissist will do again and again. And I felt like at the very beginning of season two with Alex, she's in her little chalet. It looks so cozy. She has a dog now. She's writing her memoir. And you see when she comes back to the station, that dinner party at Corey's house, I felt like she put on such a good mask of like, I've really done a lot of self reflection. I want to be different. And then as the season progresses, under more and more stress and scrutiny, I just feel like she's the same old narcissist she's always been. And we see it in such a big way that she goes to Italy to get this letter from Mitch as if he's not again, she doesn't care what he's dealing with. She doesn't care that know, at that point, we knew COVID was spreading. She doesn't care. We see how much she doesn't care about other people. She kicks them off the private jet so she can get back. She goes back to work despite knowing she was in it. She doesn't answer chip's phone calls for like weeks. She's just so utterly selfish and it's.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Just such a big and telling Mitch's wife, right. I think she thought that she was being so kind, like, I'm going to tell her, look at me.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I'm such a person. Look at me. But it's like, no. And I loved when Mitch's wife really put her in her, right?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Well, because her whole world was shattering then. Because it's like other people know, right? She had been so desperate to protect that secret that her and Mitch had know consensual sex. And now it's like, well, actually, other people do know, or other people. There were whispers. And then when Bradley got the excerpts from the book and she's interviewing Maggie, it was just so fascinating to watch Alex unravel, right? Because her whole world had changed. She's no longer in the driver's seat. Her world is falling around her. People are starting to not like her.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Because people are seeing the real her. And the whole world was about to see the real her. Like, we saw Daniel's reaction to the real her. And I was really proud of him again, in that early scene at the dinner party, that he didn't just let her off the hook and like, because that's what he's supposed to do. He really held her accountable. And you see how much he does not like that.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Daniel may be doing some work therapeutically. He is starting to stand up for himself more. He's setting is he is doing what feels authentic to him. You know what?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: He has the it factor.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Okay.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I agree with his grandpa.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. Okay.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I didn't love the cringy song and dance for Alex, and I'm sure that was humiliating for him, but he's got the if factor. And I would be ****** if I were him that I almost got the job at the other network and I agreed to stay. And then Alex just like, stabbed. He just uses people. We really saw that in that scene with Laura when they talked about going to see Bring into Noise, bring Into ****, we see how even with like and I thought this was actually really smart of the writers because it shows that Alex has always been this way, that she was new on the scene. Laura was like know, she was like the lead anchor. She was closeted at the time, but she had some close friends who knew. And it sounds like we're accepting, but it wasn't the kind of thing you just shouted from the rooftops back then. And then soon after, Alex coming into the social circle, all of a sudden it leaks and all of a sudden she gets fired. And then Alex disappears but rises up the ranks. And it was just really interesting to see Alex try to get on Laura's good side and sort of remember that whole scenario so differently from how it actually happened.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Do you think that there was malicious intent or do you think Alex just had no, no. It was either malicious intent or zero self awareness at that time.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Honestly, I feel like for someone with narcissistic personality disorder, how do you split the difference? I really feel like Alex meets criteria for that and she's always just it might not be conscious, but unconsciously thinking for herself and putting her own needs first. And the whole world revolves around her and quite literally it does. Being in such a powerful position in the media, we see again, people kick people off the private jet so she can get home. Chip comes in and exposes himself to COVID so she can go on the like, quite literally, people do revolve around her. So it's hard to like, was it malicious or was it just selfish? But where's the line?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I saw a really interesting TikTok with Alison Stoner. So she was a child star and so she just made this video. It's from September 1, if you want to watch it. And she kind of speaks on how in the film industry, especially starting out with in childhood, how narcissists are kind of grown, even if it's not like rightly. You're born with the trait. And so I think what we've talked about also with Succession 100% is just like how do you have developed drive, right? This internal drive that maybe separates you or you have what do you call it? Like predestined predetermined. Pre, whatever that word is. I'm not saying it predisposed to something that maybe comes out in some people, not others. I don't really see it in Daniel.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right. But maybe is that why he's not so as successful?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Because he's not so brutal?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That's the thing, is you have more empathy and you think about others.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And so that kind of holds him back.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Exactly.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Whereas Alex was thinking for herself and wanted what she wanted and was going to get it at and then she.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Did and then she did and then she did over and over and over again doing it. And then there are her expectations. I mean, even her family we saw in season one way more, but the facade with her partner, they did that because of her career, because she asked them to. It was expected.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And when you're on her good side, when you're on the good side of the split, she is so charming and funny and. You feel special being in her orbit, right? Like, we see that time and time again with Chip. And I feel like that's how she keeps sucking people in to help further her own agenda, though. That's the thing. Even Bradley again, I think because Bradley hasn't done the work, she's getting sucked in in a way that they I don't even think consciously realize. But Bradley's getting sucked in, too. And in many ways, we see that Bradley's mom, although very know in terms of not being successful, not being wealthy, but is still very critical, dismissive and invalidating. Much like Alex's, when you're on her bad side, like when you try to confront or criticize or point out that she's done something wrong, quickly flips on you. But I think that's why Bradley keeps getting sucked, why all these people get sucked into her orbit and she just uses them to get what she wants.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: So what do you think? Do you think it was Bradley being sucked in? What do you think about the interview with Bradley? And, like, what was Bradley's angle? I mean, I liked it. I know a question I'm saying to me. I liked it in the fact that I don't like Maggie, really. And I don't know if that's because I'm in Alex's. I just thought as a woman, instead of being about Mitch, which I'm not saying that in the way that it dismisses, because Alex is not like, a good person, really, but the fact that she kind of lied the whole time about what the book was. And it's like, I remember when Bradley was scrolling through the pages, gets in the back, right? She see her name twice. And then Alex, it's this huge thing. She's on the COVID And I thought that was a really I liked how she challenged her on some of like, why isn't this about Mitch? This was supposed to be about all of the guys and whatever. And yes, Alex is a part of that, which she doesn't want to admit. But I did appreciate kind of the pushback on, too.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I did too. And I think I would imagine Alex has really hurt Maggie. She must like I feel like this was Maggie's way of calling her to the carpet. Is that a saying? Maybe we'll go with know, like, holding her accountable and being, like, exposing who she really is to the world. But I think what Bradley was saying was, like, was that your right?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Why'd?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: You do know, why did you do this? Especially when she came to you and begged you not to. And that is true. She did. It was interesting. Yeah, I think it was really interesting. I don't think Alex expected it at all. I don't think anyone did. And then I'm wondering, why did Bradley do it?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And again, is it like.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Corey keeps putting her in these interesting, like, of, well, you should do it because you're fair. And it's like what does that mean? Remember when he's like, can you do the interview? And she's like, well, why? I don't know. This might be difficult. And he's like, I just know that you'll be really fair. But it was a drawn out it was intentionally that we heard that moment. What does that mean?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I feel like especially in season two, we see that I hate this about professional settings, when people are saying one thing but really meaning something different and you have to learn the lingo and the undertones and what's being implied. I feel like we saw that a lot with season two. So just that when he's saying fair, does he mean, don't hurt the network. Let's keep us in a good light? Is that what he really means or does he mean, you'll be fair?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it's almost both. But I'm only saying it's both because I think the fact that he likes her complicates things for him. I don't think he's used to that. I don't think he knows what to do with Bradley initially. He likes her. He keeps giving her all of these things. He keeps promoting her, promoting her, promoting her. Is it because he truly right, has this almost fantasy of how amazing she is as a career woman? Or is it that love piece? Is it infatuation?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But then he's the one who outs her. So he also loves her, but he's hurting her. And that makes me want to know more about Corey's mom. We learned just a little bit how he was taking care of her and he's kind of taking care of Bradley in terms of giving her the job, giving her a place to stay, rising through the ranks, giving her even Laura, like sending Laura into her life. Can you please help her?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: But with her in a really weird way? Permission. I think he made it in his head, okay, for him to do that when he outed them. Because Bradley he made Bradley say, right, he set her up to be like.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: You have to do whatever it takes to protect.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And, like, I think I don't know, maybe Bradley would at the end of the day, if it was super black and white or she knew the outcome later on, that she'd be like, maybe she would have given permission for that. I don't know. But in his head, I think he got permission from her. And that absolves him of the guilt. Yeah, guilt. Maybe it comes out in season three, maybe.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Because I don't think he ever told her that it was him.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I thought he was going to at the end, but then he said, I love you. And then I was like, can he not sit with the guilt of telling her this? So he says he loves her instead, right? He's fascinating. I really hope we see a lot more of his development. I really hope we see Bradley in therapy in season like, I really, really hope we do.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think that would be a great line of whatever, to see Alex and.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Bradley in therapy together, almost like couple therapy or family therapy.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And maybe she did she would go to therapy twice. Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And she's good. That's right.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: She talks some of the external problems, like the network or the cancellation. Right. But it's not about her. It's not deeply rooted in her Psych for interest.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And then she'd be good. She'd be like, I'm good. Or it would be like we saw in succession with the family therapy, right. Where you can't actually go anywhere substantial or honest.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So rewatching those episodes with Alex and Mitch and watching Mitch's death by suicide was really emotional for me. But what about for you? What did you think of all that?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: It's interesting. Bringing then in paola paula. Paula because I feel like I was just feeling many different feelings towards Mitch. At the one hand, I obviously don't like his character. I think he's like, a crappy person.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Really hard to see Steve Carell like this.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yes. Right. But 100% such a good job.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And he's also such a good choice because I think it automatically makes you, like, ambivalent.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yep.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Right.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And he is right from the office like this. Like everyone loves my favorite boss. But then, obviously, this is also another character. But it's like, oh, it's a perfect character based on his other fictional characters.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: 100%.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Because he's just, like, beloved. He's funny, rodeo virgin. There hasn't been bad press about Steve Carell, as far as I know. So him being in the role, it just automatically, I think, plants that seed of ambivalence in our minds.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yes. So when he was in Italy and that woman kind of came up to him right. And was, like, saying those things to him, and then we know her friend is filming it. Yeah. Paula come in and kind of interject. I didn't know how to so Mitch was like, right. He's excommunicated. He's living in Italy. He's by himself again. I think at that moment, he doesn't still have self awareness. I think he has more than his mentor. I think there's lines that Mitch won't cross that mentor did, but he still, I think, is lacking self awareness or really kind of understanding. He's still trying to, I think, come back or liked again. But I was again torn with that woman kind of saying those things to me. He's like, he's here minding his business. He's a hat on. Like, he's not right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Exactly.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Clear the restaurant for me.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I thought it also brought up this idea of cancel culture and that exploration in a really smart way, how, like, yeah, he's done something many things that are awful and egregious. But, yeah, he's alone. He's not doing anything egregious right then. And we're just going to provoke him in hopes of filming it, that it'll go viral for that person's. Personal gain. That was.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I i the one thing that I liked Paola said to them was kind of just the pointing out of, like, you're doing this to post it. And I was, yeah, like, this isn't you kind of coming up and having a conversation and being like, I just feel like I need to say you whatever. Like a small thing, which, again, still is unprovoked, but whatever. I think just like, people do that, right? People do that. She would have gone viral and had her moment and that feels just a little icky. So anyway, moving through that, I think, just because I always am. So I don't think it's naive, but, like, go lucky, optimistic, never ending. But I feel like Mitch, in his way, on his path, which is not mine or other people's, was kind of exploring what he did.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: He was I thought so, too, way more than exactly.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Like, I think he, with time was changing, maybe with more support. I think that documentary that he did with Paolo was powerful or learning of that survivor in Italy that she was talking about or trying to film or make the documentary about. I think he was learning. And so I'm wondering if because he was it was like all of a sudden there was this guilt or like he couldn't handle the fact that he was this person who did these terrible things because he wasn't suicidal before. It was on his journey almost to changing that he took his life.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It was so sad. Like that scene where he swerves and then you see his hand let go. I was like, oh, it really gets him. And he shuts his eyes like he's at peace.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Oh, so sad, portia I mean, he's a children. I don't know. I feel like he had the capacity for change and you have to want it, and he didn't want it before. I don't think he wanted to be.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Alone, away from everyone. COVID, like, thinking about your life, I do think I was seeing more and more capacity for reflection and introspection and ability to change, and I wasn't seeing that from Alex. To me, it was a fascinating juxtaposition of her coming out to Italy, won her letter from him, really railing on him, saying anything she could to get what she wanted.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then them being good and then them not being good.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: It was like this whiplash and then them dancing and having these really tender, loving moments and then parting ways, it seemed like, on good terms. And then that happens. But then in between, I guess, then he is intimate with Paola, who he's.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Very upset by the allegations about it being like, preying on black women.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Yes.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I don't know. It was sad. It was definitely sad and unexpected for me. I did not see that coming.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And one thing we've talked about in some previous episodes is that humans are complicated and flawed and complex and you can be a perpetrator and a victim. Like, we talk about this a lot with children who grow up in really abusive households and then, unfortunately, become abusive as adults, but I feel like we see that with Mitch here. And again, I'm not trying to be a Mitch Apologist or anything, but he did awful bad things, and now he's being treated so and, yes, he should be held accountable and be fired and maybe arrested or charged with things like all of that. And I think this show, we see what could happen to a human soul going through that and then being just, like, piled on, piled on, piled on top of it, as he does seem to be trying to figure it out or figure out how do you move forward? Right.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it's also, like, the power of cancel culture, which is what I heard you kind of saying, but not saying those specific words just now. Because I think when some things are very clear, like taking absolutely social media or any kind of presence out, it's like, okay, you do something bad, maybe you do get convicted. Like, you actually are part of the criminal justice system, and you go to jail. It's like you are then treated poorly and in this terrible system. But it's clear then it's like the world, everyone hates you. They are death threats, making things about your kids. It's so interesting to hear people talk about cancel culture or being canceled because everybody says it's, like, the worst thing, because it's so unique. I don't know. It feels nuanced. I know it's not super new at this point, but it's just this weird thing.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: And I think, too, with social media, I feel like that has to add to it. It's not just like you're being canceled at your place of work, in your immediate family, or even in America. He was canceled internationally, and again, in some ways, he deserves it. 100 million%. And then all the piling on at the same time. You just think about that is a human at the end of the day, too? And this is really tricky. I feel like this is really hard for everyone, humans, me to wrap my head around. The show just does such a good job portraying really difficult topics. And as we wrap up, I do want to make sure we talk about Bradley and Hal. What did you think of this?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I thought it was was because I was so moved and I was so angry at him when he know, I'll make it really simple. He's describing how their mom has impacted him right. By being threatening, manipulative, all of these things. And he does it exactly to Bradley, like, within the same sentence. And it's just like I was speechless at how well they got it. Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: I know.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And then Bradley, the guilt tripping, the threatening, the putting it it's on you. My substance use is on you. Showing up and hurt me. Job horrible.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: All of it. You can just see how much she is struggling with wanting to help and support him. Especially now that she has so much money, like more money than they ever had and she can't help him. But then being totally like, what are you doing? Like, why are you showing up here? Are you using? She looks through his bag and then he notices. But then it's like, of course she right. And it's just they perfectly demonstrated that dance. And that scene when she's dropping him off at rehab and trying to set those boundaries like Laura was encouraging her to, was heartbreaking. But I felt like if I was her therapist, I would say you have to set boundaries.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I would have been very proud of her for how she was when she dropped him off. I can't do this for you. This is your decision. Go in or go out. I can't make you sober. And then sucked back in again later on.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: But Manipulatively leaves all the money and disappears again. It's like just like Alex disappearing with her back and not answering anyone's calls. It is such a primitive way of getting someone's attention, right? By scaring them, being like, oh, you don't want anything to do with me? Well then look what's going to happen. And it totally worked.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And it's so hard to not be impacted by that. People do it 1000 times over and over again. Sometimes they never stop and sometimes they do, but it just breaks you as a person and having to do that over and over and over again.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: You really need help navigating that. And that's where support groups, even like Alanon, your own individual therapy can help with that. I don't think there was any way for Bradley to stick with her boundaries in that situation. I thought her reaction was really accurate and human and you just saw all the desperation and remorse and guilt and everything that she was feeling. And I feel like, unfortunately, people who love someone affected by substance use will totally relate to that.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And the people who know in a relationship like Laura with Bradley, because I think that can oftentimes alienate the person like Bradley even more. Because as things are happening, as Hal is pushing Bradley and kind of like making her unwell, there's the people around Bradley like Laura, who then even more so will start to be know, you really can't do this anymore. You really need to set a boundary. And sometimes that know, break a relationship, right? And so then it's like, then you're more know, you're without more it's so it seems know, okay, it's just between Bradley and it just the spider web goes out so far with how substance abuse impacts families.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: That's what we always say, right? It's a disease of the family. It affects everyone. Which I guess you could say about most mental health conditions. But we really see it with substance use. And it was just what a portrayal. And I mean, so expertly done and so heart wrenching. I was so glad she did finally find him, but I'm really worried they're both going to get COVID now. Or I was like, Bradley, what if you have COVID and you're running in exposing all these other people? And it's just like the chaos, right?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: And it's still so at the beginning. So they hadn't shut down, no visitors yet. It's within all the chaos of her own life. And then it's like you're seeing which we love, the parallels of all the chaos that now the world is being pushed into.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: So where do you hope season three goes?

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I'm sure there'll be at least a couple episodes, right, with them working from home. And I'm curious how that is. But then I'm wondering where season three ends. I know I'm getting way ahead of myself, but because will Cobra be, quote unquote, over? Are they back into the office? Does anyone die? Are Corey and who does Bradley end up with? Is anyone fired? Is Alex ever able to gain anything? Does she keep doing her?

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: No, I don't have any hope for her. I'm sorry.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: I think it's interesting because the show, or maybe not the writers, but the producers or the directors in an interview had talked about how they really wanted to give Alex her redemption at the end of season two. And I feel like maybe a person without mental health background would think she did.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: Were you watching, like, the stay tuned for the show? I did watch that for a couple of episodes, including the last one, and I think they touched on, like they were trying to say, like, Alex is human. And I'm like, yeah, and really far on the narcissistic spectrum, like, really lacking empathy and ability to appreciate how our actions affect others. So I just don't think that's going to magically develop.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Yeah. And if it does, I don't know. I think the writers, like we've talked about a million times, are wonderful and have they must have mental health experts they have to, helping them develop these characters.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: If you want some more, you can find us at Analyze Scripts podcast.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Exactly. So please reach out to us anywhere. You can find us on Instagram or TikTok at Analyze Groups podcast or check out our website. You can also email us if you'd like to get in touch with us on a more of a professional level. But stay tuned for more of our episodes and check out the ones that we have back in the feed. There's a lot.

Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: There's a lot. All right, thanks for listening and we'll see you again next Monday.

Portia Pendleton, LCSW: Bye bye.

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Dr. Katrina Furey, MD: All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening and see you next time.

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