Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. In this episode, we comment on the block buster hit featuring the iconic Taylor Swift in her most recent tour. As we go through the Eras we comment on why the movie was so emotional for us and others. Seeing women, and some men, of all ages singing, smiling and dancing together was magic. Listen to us analyze some of her songs from the tour such as "Anti-Hero" and "All Too Well" (the 10 minute version) as she describes such common feelings and emotions that Swifties of all ages relate to.  Her lyrics transcend generations and bring us all together at a time when we could all use a little "Peace." We hope you enjoy! 

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Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Where two shrinks analyze the depiction of.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Mental health in movies and TV shows.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: With a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And your DSM Five and enjoy.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you are.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Welcome.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: We're so excited today. This is our first video, so hopefully it's not like a garbage can dumpster fire, but we'll see.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, we're really excited to be I think Portia, like, our tech has come a really long way in just when did we start recording? I think. Was it January or February?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I want to say end of January.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: End of January. So, like, less than a year. And, like, look at us go.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I've got the lighting, some props. You have some props that may be giving hints today about what we're going to be talking about.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Some paraphernalia here.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Look at that.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Very excited. I'm going to let you intro it because I know you are such a swiftie.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So today we're going to be talking about the era's tour movie, which we thought would be just such a cool idea. So typically. Right. We're talking about, like, fiction, movies, TV shows, stuff like that. But we had to cover the Era's tour movie about the tour. Neither of us have seen the tour yet. I think it was a lot, and neither of us had the foresight to see that. You had to log in right, like, the second and buy the tickets because you couldn't afford them if you wanted to buy them after the fact.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. I don't think we should be super hard on ourselves because I think it was impossible for almost anyone to get a ticket.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I do think this was a really nice way for everyone to get to see it who hasn't been able to go. And I kind of enjoyed it. I kind of enjoyed this way.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: It was incredible.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, I told you. I think we should just start there.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I felt like I had a religious conversion, honestly. I was like, whoa.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So tell me about when you went.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Have you seen it more than one time?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I've seen it twice. I saw it the first time with my husband. We went on a very busy weekend. It was my sister in law's wedding. I officiated the wedding. So there was, like, event dinner, breakfast, whatever. And then that night, it was like, we're going to the Arrows tour movie. I don't care how tired you are. I don't care that it's Sunday night. Like, we're going. So I saw it with him, and it was amazing. And I do have a little story to tell tickets, like, when it came out. And so it said that the Era's tour would be only showing in AMC movie theaters. Right? I remember I searched AMC in the movie theaters when I got in, right? It was like, you're in the waiting room. I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm getting tickets. This feels amazing. And so I bought them kind of far away because we have movie theaters closer to us, but they're not the AMC ones are not.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So I bought two sets of tickets. So I had four tickets, like two different nights. And I did not go to either of those. I didn't end up selling them. I just last minute bought closer tickets. That's like a difference of like an hour, ten minutes.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, it was a cost benefit analysis.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Return the tickets. I have to say that's annoying that there were no refunds.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I know. Because I think someone else would have liked them. Like, they were early the weekend they came out. So I don't know. I just couldn't be bothered again. It was really stressful. So I've bought ticket sets to four, and I've gone to two and they've all passed. So it's not like I could do anything about that. But my husband was, like, laughing by the time because he was like, we spent really a fraction of what the.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Real yes, that's the thing. I bought two sets, and then I did end up selling one of them. I was able to resale them for like $5 less than I bought them for. But I knew someone would be able to buy them because I went with my daughter who's about to turn five. I can't believe it, but she has become a little swifty, like, in the past six months. It started over the summer when she was at camp. I picked her up from camp and she was like, mom, do you know who Taylor Swift is? And I was, you know and then whenever we'd hear a song on the radio, she'd be like, this is Taylor Swift. And I was like, yeah, it's so cute the way she says her know, just in her little girl voice. And then one day I picked her up and a counselor, I think, had shown them some sort of video, whether it was a concert video, music video, but she was so cute. She got in the car and she was like, mom, I saw Taylor Swift today. And she was dancing, and she had microphone and she was singing. She had never crossed her mind that you could do all those things. And in my head, I was like and she plays instruments. Like, wait till you see. Um, and so then she's really gotten into Taylor Swift. And it's so funny because she only knows her new songs, like the karma one, she know. But if like, Love Story comes on the radio and I'm like, oh, this is Taylor Swift, she's like, no, it's not. What are you talking about? But anyway, so I took her and we had like a little Halloween event at their school beforehand. So she was like in her Halloween costume. It was just me and her, and it was like the time of my life. It was so great. She had so much fun. We got the popcorn and was just it was so cool because I felt like I'm there with my daughter, but then we're surrounded by all these women. It reminded me of when we went to see Barbie, how it was just experience and a very female experience. So there were other moms with their older daughters, like tween teens. Then there were like teenagers, early 20s, who were there by themselves, but as a group, all dressed up. There were all these friendship bracelets. A girl gave my daughter a friendship bracelet, which was that's so sweet, cute. And my daughter kept wanting to get up and go dance with the big girls. So then we'd go, like, in the back where all the older girls are dancing, and they all were, like, filming themselves, I guess, for their social media, but it was just so pure and adorable and sweet and it was just so fun. I had so much fun with her, and I was impressed. There were times where she was getting like she wanted to go during the slower sets, but then luckily it would pick up. It was like 1989, and then we would get back into it. But it was just so fun. It was so fun.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So when I went, I got a lot, like, teary eyed multiple times because there's definitely people of all ages, right? Like the little kiddos I didn't see, like well, actually, the second time I went, there was really young ones there, probably around your daughter's age and then older, right? So like forty s, fifty s, teens my age, whatever. And women of every age were there singing everything, laughing and just like, loving life, and it was just like so beautiful. So the first time I saw it was definitely more hyped, right? Like, people were singing and dancing and that was great and awesome. And then the second time I saw it, I went with my friend and we were sitting in between this group of women who are in their sixty s and seventy s, and it was like quieter, and I really appreciated that because then the slow songs I just was like weeping during and they were so into it. I forget which one it was. I think it was the song. It was after All Too Well, and then one of the more sexy ones, they were like, Whoa. Like screaming and clapping, and I was like, wow, okay.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I know, I just thought also in the movie. Taylor is having so much fun. You can just tell she is just like loving what she's doing. And I was like, if only we could all feel that way with our I just it was so cool to see her loving it so much. And I just thought it was so cool to I like how she didn't do it chronologically. It seemed like it wasn't chronological right. In terms of which era she was doing. It wasn't like we're going to start at the beginning and go till the present. And I liked that because you got to see all these different eras of her life and just see how she's grown up but in this mishmashed way, right? From love story to the sexy chairs to the man to everything. It was so cool. And the dancing was great. I loved the diversity of her dancers from body type, gender, race, skin color, everything. It was awesome. And that she just highlighted them all. I loved all of the intense walking with all of it. I was like, I want to walk.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I Know.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: What if you imagine you come out to get your patient? Never. But it reminded me back of our dancing days with doing like jazz walk off the floor. I just missed that walk.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Her Shoes. I love shoes. So they're all custom louboutins red bottoms. The boots, I was like, oh, the pink ones, the blue ones, the midnight blue ones. They were stunning. And I wanted to know and then she had loafers that were louboutins and like a new shoe leather. Right. Nice. They typically hurt. Obviously hers were broken in. Obviously they were like and obviously shelted.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Like butter, I'd imagine.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Right form to her foot. And I was like, how can I get a pair? Obviously not one that she wore, because that would be insanely expensive. But I just want one of them so badly. And we'll see.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: We'll See. If anyone else has a hookup, let us know.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So the eras were in order of. We started with Lover and then there was Fearless evermore Reputation. Speak now. Red Folklore, 1989. Then the acoustic set, which we got in the movie. You're on your own, kid. And then our song. And then ended with midnights. What did you think about the order? You said that you liked that it wasn't right. Like from debut on?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I did. Because I think I like that they could intersperse the slower sets and then the hits and then some slower stuff. And I think since I haven't historically been, like, a grade A swifty, I just like her music. But I'm not out there. There would be these songs that I hadn't heard before. I'm ashamed to admit maybe, but I was like, oh, that's lavender haze. Or hearing the songs or the albums that maybe I didn't listen to. And then the hits would come next. Or, like, the more upbeat songs, I guess.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So I liked it. But what about you?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I really loved it. I think it helped me find more songs that I have been really liking of hers. I really like Midnight's a lot. I think I knew her debut album, right? Like the classic, like, our song, her Country More album. And then I don't think I was really in it for fearless and speak now. So I kind of bopped back in after those two. And then I ended up seeing which was, yeah, I knew Red because that was when I turned 22. So that was very fitting. Taylor is one year older than me, so talking about why people feel so close with her is that she's been making music forever. And it's always been luckily for me, which I feel like is a gift. So on brand for what I'm going through and high school. Right. Like, growing up, love, heartbreak into more now. I think some of the slow songs, like, are adult. Yes. They don't have to be, but just some of the feelings and experiences are so fitting now that it's just like.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: But even though from the beginning, I feel like they were so fitting. Right. So she said it spans 17 years, which is astounding. Right? And so she was like 15 writing this stuff. And I was hoping we would touch on this because I think clearly her music and just like, her as a person resonates with the masses internationally. Right. And I find that really fascinating because on the one hand, just stereotypically, she is a privileged, skinny, white blonde girl who's pretty. Right. So on one hand, I feel like we could all really hate her. Right?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I think people do, but not I.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: But do you know what I mean? On the one hand, she kind of was very blessed coming from a supportive family that had a lot of money, who could afford to chase her dreams with her, could afford to move to Nashville, all of that stuff. I feel like you could argue, like, she's starting off with a huge privilege in that way. I don't think you can say that. That's not true. And even if you go back to her early songs, the songwriting and the emotion behind it is amazing. And I really feel like she's like a savant in terms of music and songwriting in particular. And even the way she sings the songs, like the inflections in her voice when she's singing versus kind of talking, the tone of her voice, the way she delivers it. For me, I think it's like all of that together that resonates with everyone. And I just think, what a gift. I think it started all the way back with Wasn't Teardrops on My Guitar her song?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: All the way back with that. To our song to Love story. Like the early ones. They speak to you. Right. And I spend so much of my professional life helping adults find words to describe their feelings. That, to me, it's, like, amazing that a 1415 year old could capture that in a beautiful way. Not just, like, acoustically beautiful, but the words she's saying and the message conveying. Right. It's astounding. And then I think just seeing this movie tour and you see her evolution and how her songwriting all the way to the presenting has gotten so much more complex and evolved and gritty. It's amazing. I'm so amazed.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. I think her lyrics are just, like, why she's so amazing and well liked and well received. Because I think everyone has experienced everything that she talks about. But the way that she describes it is so it makes you feel, like, seen, I guess I'd say, right? It makes it really resonate with you. It makes it feel like there are words for it. It's like, even if it wasn't a football player, it's still someone in high school who didn't like you back when you really liked.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I think it's so funny to me that it's like, she is the it girl now. So the fact that this It girl, even back then, skinny, pretty, blonde, rich girl, felt like an outsider, it's just interesting. But I think it speaks to, like, we all feel like that no matter what no matter what your background is, no matter what you look like, no matter what privilege you have or you don't, we all feel like that at different times and right. I think she just really speaks to it. And she grew up speaking to her reputation. I love the Reputation album. I love 1989. But those grittier songs about her reputation or about how she handles the scrutiny, oh, my God, so good. And then it's so catchy. Right? It's not just like, the lyrics are great. They just get in your head. Like, it's so catchy. You can't I know. It's amazing.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. It's hard to get some of them out. I'm not a fan of shake it off. Yeah. It's just not where I am right now. I'm more like Folklore Evermore, some midnights vibe. And I liked Shake It Off when it came out, but it's like a lot of people were like, oh, there's like, other songs from that album that you could have put on there that are better. I think Shake It Off, though, is like a radio hit, right? It's, like, fun to dance to. Everybody likes it. It's so catchy to the point where it's like, can I shake off shake It Off?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I was sad that Wildest Dreams wasn't in there. I love that one.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I know, because it was in the tour.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right? I think there were a couple that were in the tour but didn't make the movie. And I'm sure they have to cut out at some point.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. I really wanted to hear The Archer, so when I went, I was, like, elbowing my husband, being like, okay, this is next. This is next. This is next. And I was like, oh, the Archer is next. And it didn't happen. What?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: You knew the order of the songs going in.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah, because it's the same as the tour.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Okay.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I watched a lot of Lives live streams, and then I have the playlist on my phone, so it didn't come on. And I was like, am I missing something? Like? What was the archer in Lover? Am I totally off? Is it 1980? No, it's not 1989.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Blah, blah.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So it was like the Archer cardigan. Wildest dreams. And then no body, no crime. I don't love no body, no crime. But I was really disappointed about the Archer cardigan and Wildest Dreams, like, bombed.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, no, I think a lot of people were, but I think at some point they have to cut some. Like it's already super long.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Right.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Just also giving her some props. So top grossing music concert film ever already. Followed by Justin Bieber with his Never say never one. And then Michael Jackson. This is it. And then Hannah Montana Best of Both Worlds, which I thought was, like, so funny. I loved Hannah Montana, definitely didn't see it. But it was also a little yeah, but I'm curious to see how Beyonce's tour does Renaissance.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: That's awesome.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I think it's coming. We know it's coming out. Yeah. So she's going to do a movie, another opportunity, which I think is so great for people to be able to see their favorite artists without spending hundreds or thousands of dollars.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: So I appreciate it. For Taylor Swift, like, literally thousands, let alone, like, airfare hotel. And you think there's probably a lot of people out there who maybe just even physically can't get know. And so it is really cool way. I also think it's so cool that this year I feel like it's been like women at the box office. We had like, Barbie and now we have Taylor Swift. And I was reading something that know, they released it independently, not with a major studio. And just this is another thing I love about Taylor Swift is she clearly is. So like, on the one hand, I'm like, what does it feel like to be that powerful? On the other hand, I'm too scared to know. But she's so powerful and she uses it in, I think, some smart ways like this, like releasing it without a studio backing her. At a time when all the strikes are happening and there's so much tension between the studio execs and the creatives, it's just like sort of showing them we don't really need you if our content is good enough. And I just feel like that's kind of smart. And I feel like we know movie theaters and stuff have been so struggling for a long time, and especially since COVID So it's just like injecting a lot of into that sphere. It's just like stuff like that I find really interesting. And I think some of her, I'd say, like, in the past decade. Some of her songs I'm specifically thinking of. You need to calm down. I love that song. But her lyrics that are just very shade, never made anybody less gay. You've just said so much. It's just so smart. And I think she's been more political in the past few years. And it's just like, what a way of using your power. Right?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And we saw that with Antihero, too, right. So antihero is like, right? The radio hit of midnight. And it's just, like, all about mental health. So in case this is your first episode, we are two mental health professionals who typically talk about movies, diagnosing TV characters and talking about mental health themes that we see. But we thought it'd be fun to take a little bit of a detour with this and talk about just, like, her impact on mental health. There's a lot of articles that came out after the Eris tour tour started. One of them I tried to find, but it's like behind a paywall new York Times, the psychologist or psychiatrist was talking about the week and just hearing constantly about Taylor Swift, about the lyrics, about what's going on with her and just how that's impacted our sessions and the yeah, it's amazing, right?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And I think, like you're saying, Portia, she speaks to entire not even just one generation, not even, like, the generation she belongs to, but like, you're saying you see older women there, you see very young. Like, my daughter hasn't been in love yet, except, like, with me, of course, but she doesn't relate to all these words yet. But there's something about her she relates to already. Right. And to me, that's fascinating. And I think sitting there in the movie with her, seeing these other young girls, seeing older mothers there with their daughters, then being at this phase of my life, I just felt very connected to all different phases of my life. And I feel like that's what brought me to tears. That was overwhelming. And I felt like that at Barbie, too, when we went just seeing all the moms and daughters and stuff like like, you just feel connected. And I think that she just does that for the masses somehow.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I know, and I think it's got to come back to her presence. I think she's very relatable and even some of the stuff on the level of the stage that she is so privileged within, right? Like celebrity culture, artists, et cetera. It's like right. We can all remember some of the not so nice things that happened to her. Very Kanye, you know? Then her albums with Scooter Braun. And it's just like it's so interesting watching someone again who does have a lot of power and privilege be able to do something about it. And I think sometimes we don't have that ability. And that feels really bad, which, of course, it does, but for her, to be able to be such a model of resilience, trying to own your power and use your resources where you can I don't know, just, like, own your stuff is so empowering.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I 100% agree. And I think with all of her privilege also comes this huge level of scrutiny and criticism, which I don't think any of us can imagine what that's really like to live through. And for her to have navigated that from the age of, like, 1415 to now as a woman. Right. I think the man really speaks to that in a fun, cheeky, catchy way, but really speaks to it. And it's been really fascinating to watch her evolution as she has tried to manage all that scrutiny. And I think we got some insight into her own sort of mental health struggles, which I don't think we need to fully get into. But with that documentary that came out during COVID what was it? Miss Americana? But it was to see that it does get to her and it's like, well, duh. Of course it does. It would get to any of us. Even that makes her relatable. But even just like, the way she talked about it in that documentary wasn't like it didn't, to me, at least, feel like attention seeking. It seemed more like, this isn't stuff she talks about a lot. She doesn't really want to talk about it, but she's putting enough out there and with antihero and stuff like that to sort of say, I'm going through this. This is how I cope with it. And I think that helps make her relatable. But then to see her still shine and bounce back or rebound or grow from it and make art from it and express herself in a way that connects with the masses again, I think is really inspiring. And I think not everyone can do that. Not everyone would be able to get back up after all of that. Heavy, heavy.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So I was listening to a podcast with, you know, that I really enjoy him and his book, but Josh Peck has a podcast, and he had, like, open invite.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Josh Peck?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So they had the guest, Taylor Lautner, on their podcast, know, We Know, dated many years ago. Ironically, he did marry a So Now, which I just think is so hilarious. But anyway, he was talking about Know from them then and just saying how they kind of reconnected because he was in one of her more recent music videos and she's just so nice and hardworking and creative. And now, a couple of days later, Travis, Kelsey's dad, was interviewed about her and just talking about how she was cleaning up trash in this week. And it feels which everyone is saying, right, and I believe, but, like, really authentic. It's not performative. It's not like, oh, I'm putting on this act where I'm so nice. It's just like, she doesn't have that diva mentality, even though she should. Right. It's like she's the number one pop star ever and is so popular and could get away with it. Right. But it's like she's so grounded. And I think taking time off and really not being in the public eye at certain times, maybe in response to some difficult things, has really helped that. And even just thinking, like, I can't imagine what it would be like to be someone of her levels, like therapists. Right. I don't know if she has one. I'm not saying she does, but I can't imagine.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: But I would imagine she does. Or she has at some points, I would hope. Or maybe her parents are just like, astoundingly amazing, like amazing supports. She's had some level of support to help, I think, keep her grounded. And I totally agree. I think she does have a reputation of being nice. And I think you just see that. You just feel it from her. And I agree, it doesn't feel, performative or put on. And then there was an article that came out a while back just saying she gave all of her tour drivers like $100,000 bonus. I feel like she just does stuff like this. And I was like going down a reddit rabbit hole in preparation for this episode and just seeing what do people think of her? Because I'm sure there are people who hate her. I'm sure she's been rude to someone at some point in her life because she's human and we all have, but I think in general, she seems just very nice. And even the stuff with Sophie Turner lately, how she was going through a hard time and all of a sudden Taylor's with her and she kind of swoops in. I feel like for her friends at Important, and maybe there is a bit of it that's for publicity, but I think that's an example of her using her power for what she feels like is right or good or things like that. Right. And I feel like, sure, there's probably been some caddiness in the past, I would imagine. I don't know. But I get that sense that she's just like, nice.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah, I think so.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And I think that it's like, how does that happen? How did you not become a raging narcissist? Right. In our succession episodes, we talked a lot about, well, when you live in that environment, how could you not be? Right? And it's like, how could she not be? But somehow she's remained grounded. It really seems like again, I have no idea. I could be totally off. I haven't.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: It's just that like, phenomenon, right? When everyone is doing something for you all the time and everyone is so happy to what do you need? Or what do you want? Or, you're so amazing. And that's in your ear, it's like people who run in those circles, whether it's just from wealth or it's from fame that changes you, that becomes right. So I think. It's really interesting that that's not ever the case of what we see the public ever. It's like so many artists or celebrities, right. It's like they were rude to a person at a restaurant or she has, which she should. And I think it's similar with the Kardashians, like really good NDAs right. Nothing's getting through, even though there's some pictures lately. But she just seems like she has a really strong support system, which I would know kind of as just a general way to judge it to Britney Spears. Right. So it's like Taylor Swift appears to us to have this strong secure support system where it's like I think her dad people have talked about is into finance. So he did really well with putting her money in places and looking out for her. Exactly. And then we see someone who did not appear to have a good, strong support system to protect around her. And it's know that's not as simple as it is, but it's like that's a good example. Know just the differences or what I would imagine Taylor Swift has and how important it is.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right. And I think Taylor Swift is an individual person, but she's also like a machine, right? Like it isn't just a know, like she's got her in house management, which again is like smart. I think she's learned to keep it all in house, is what it seems like. We should take a page from her book as our podcast obviously grows to be wildly successful.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So let's go through if you want to. I thought it'd be fun to just go through like the antihero lyrics. Oh my God.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Because there's one line that's my favorite lyric, perhaps, of all time. I bet you can guess what it is.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I can. It's coming up. I think it's like the third verse. Okay. So it starts with I have this thing where I get older but just never wiser. Midnights become my afternoons when my depression works. The graveyard shift. All the people I've ghosted stand there in the room.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Everyone just shut the door, just stop. Like amazing. And also spot on for clinical depression. It affects your sleep cycles. You tend to be up in the middle of the night. You have what we call like a delayed sleep cycle. So you fall asleep way later, and then you have a harder time waking up in the morning hearing that. I'm like, she has experienced depression. That's what it feels like.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And I think it's really funny because when you are experiencing depression, you often are not responding to people. And I have a lot of clients who there's a lot of anxiety about their text or their imessage, their Snapchats growing. And now it's like 100 or 40 or whatever and just being paralyzed with not being able to respond. And that can feel right, even if it's not intentional. Like you're ghosting your friends. So all the people I've ghosted stand there in the room. Right. Like, staring at me, like, all the pressure to respond.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: It's just like, yes, 100% kiss social isolation 100%. And also it speaks to maybe how self critical you can feel when you're clinically depressed episode. Or maybe even some people are just way more critical of themselves. We call that having a critical superego. But it kind of speaks to that too. Like, maybe these people aren't really thinking about her, but she is feeling all this guilt for not getting to them.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Absolutely. All right, so the next couple of lines are, I should not be left to my own devices. They come with prices and vices. I end up in crisis pale as all this time I wake up screaming from dreaming. One day I'll watch as you're leaving because you got tired of my scheming.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: For the last time.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So what do you think that's about? If I'm taking it really directly, I wake up screaming from dreaming. So maybe having some nightmares, like anxiety dreams about what you're doing.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Go ahead.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Some just like, lack of maybe confidence.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Like, I should not be left to my own devices. I think a lot of people who experience mental health challenges, there's separate ones that you are overly confident or inappropriately confident, but the majority of the other ones we see more typically, there's like a big confidence hit.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah. And I think it speaks to when you're feeling more depressed or anxious, it's common in human nature to use unhealthy coping strategies like everything from overeating to not exercising to using substances to maybe something like self harming behaviors. I think it kind of speaks to being stuck in the muck of depression, maybe, and feeling like you can't get yourself out. And also that wondering if the person you love will still be there for you or if this is going to push them away.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I know that's good. That's a good analysis.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And then we come to the chorus. So it's me. Hi, I'm the problem. It's me at tea time everybody agrees I'll stare directly at the sun, but never in the mirror. It must be exhausting. Always rooting for the antihero.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Can she get a Pulitzer Prize, please? Like, this is astounding. This still isn't my favorite line. You know it's coming up.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: You know which one it is? I do. So I'll stare directly at the sun, but never in the mirror I think is so good with, like, you'll hurt yourself, you'll blind yourself, you'll cause pain or whatever, but you won't kind of look at what's really maybe happening about you, the self awareness to get that insight.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And it's like it is so hard to look at yourself, your true self, and own up to or acknowledge the parts of ourselves that we don't like or that we want to change or that we know are getting in our own way so hard. And it just really speaks to that. And that's even harder when you're in the throes of depression or even just like stress. Even if it's not like a clinical mental health issue. Even just like being overwhelmed with stress. Oh my God. Totally. That might be my second favorite line.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So then we come to the part that everybody was like, what does that mean? Sometimes I feel like everybody is a sexy baby and I'm a monster on the hill. Too big to hang out, slowly lurching towards your favorite city, pierced through the heart but never killed. So to me that feels like a little bit of her talking about body image. Right. So everybody's sexy and attractive and I'm this monster on the hill. So I'm this clumsy, lurching, uncomfortable in my body. I don't know how to move it. I feel detached from it, which is pretty common if you're having any type of body image issues, which she's talked about having and then pierce through the heart.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I was just going to say this was the one in the movie right. Where on the screen was like a giant tailor lurking around right. And kind of like an awkwardness and I feel like her awkwardness as beautiful and tall and blonde and skinny that she is, she still has this awkwardness that I think makes her relatable that people latch on to, but I imagine for her has been uncomfortable.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Well, she's tall. I know a lot of people tall women have a hard time being tall. Like it's just with partners, with clothing.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: 100%. I'm sure she has faced so much scrutiny in the media about her body and her changing body from teenagerhood to now. Right. Even watching her dancing, like in the movie, there were parts where she was a little awkward, but I liked know and I think people like it, but I would imagine for like when you are up against Britney Spears or other well, you might feel a certain way. So I totally that can speak to that.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: She's definitely a lyricist and know she's not a dancer. I think she does a great job, but that's why she has amazing dancers.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Right.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So here we go. Yeah. Did you hear my covert narcissism? I disguise as altruism, like some kind of congressman.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: That's it. It's my favorite line.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: So we talk a lot about narcissists.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yes, they're I think just like everywhere in America culture, period, but a lot on our screens in terms of TV shows and movies. But holy can I say holy ****. Holy ****. First of all, covert narcissism is such a high level concept. I feel like the average person wouldn't understand. And that is just spot on that a lot of times people who are really altruistic, but in a way that you're putting it out there for everyone to see, that's where it's coming from. Oh my God. Every time I hear that line, I'm floored. And I love that the masses are consuming this because maybe somewhere in there. There's a kernel that makes you think or makes you wonder, like, what is that? Maybe you look into it a little more. Right, right.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: And then her comparing it to some kind of congressman. I think it's common knowledge. I don't think it's like a hot take to say that most politicians are Narcissists. I think you have to be, in a way, to believe that you should be a leader of the masses, even if you're a great leader or you're a bad leader. But then I think we've talked about, too, that's where you see the differences between covert and overt Narcissists. We could give examples, but we're not going to because we don't talk about real people or make judgments.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Yeah, but listen to our old episodes about succession, about even the Nightmare Before Christmas. We touch on this with the mayor. We've touched on it a lot. Our stuff about you. We've touched on Narcissism a lot. And I think I think of Narcissism much like I think of a lot of different things, especially in regards to personality development, as being a spectrum. And there is like, we all need a healthy amount of Narcissism to be self confident, to put yourself out there, to advocate for yourself. It's like the people who don't have enough of it are often the ones who, like, people please too much, get walked all over, don't put themselves up for the promotion. Right. You need a healthy amount of it, and then you need to have a healthy amount of empathy to be able to keep it in check. And it's when it's all the way to the side where you don't have any empathy, where it becomes, like, a real issue in your relationships. Oh, my gosh. And, yeah, there are certain fields, like politicians, I think any field where you're a leader in some way, there might be a higher percentage of people with these.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. We katrina loves talking about Narcissism, so if you have an interest in that fairly so the last verses or little dribble of words is just about her saying, right? Like, my daughter in law kills me for the money, which I think speaks to her storytelling, or just like, who knows? I'm making a huge assumption here, but I don't know if I was her I think there's all these people who might be out to get you, right? Like, take advantage. I don't think it's real paranoia. Right. We've talked about this before, too, with succession, and just like, people are out to use you for whatever, for clout, for money, for any kind of gain, and that's really why. Right. She seems to have such a secure network where it feels like it's balanced, right? Like, people are getting paid well to work for her, and that builds trust. And she has a lot of long term relationships. She has Tree, who's I think her publicist, who she's had for decades, and that I think just speaks to people are really rooting for you.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I think that also just speaks to her character that despite being patapulted into fame and everything she's gone through, if there are these people that have been there for a long time and she can maintain those relationships, I think that speaks to her character. Getting back to her grounded, humble nature. I just think that's a good point.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So the one other thing that I wanted to cover is kind of the idea of gaslighting. So in the all too well ten minute version, which was just literally a religious experience to watch, this is where.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I was like, I need to watch this ten minute music video. I haven't watched it yet. I hadn't watched it before, but I was like, up googling on Wikipedia on Reddit, trying to figure out what is up with this red scarf?

Portia Pendleton LCSW: What did you find?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Found a lot of stuff about maybe it was about a relationship with an older man that was short lived. Maybe it involved, like, her virginity and stuff. And I was just like I had a lot of feelings about it.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah. So obviously there's iconic lines in this, like, f the patriarchy. And then one of the lines, which is like, as I get older, your lovers stay my or as you get older, your lovers stay my age.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And that was like, after apparently he broke up with her because you're too young, kind of thing.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah, I heard a lot about and I just do in general, a lot of people will throw around the word gaslighting, like, oh, he was gaslighting me, or they were gaslighting me, or blah, blah, blah, blah.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: And I think that this song why.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: It resonates, at least for me, and I think some others have said this, too, is because at the end of the song, when she says and she repeats this over and over again, wind in my hair, I was there, I was there. Down the stairs, I was there, I was there. Sacred prayer, I was there, I was there. It was rare. You remember it. And I think that's just such a good example of how and in the music video, which is so good, with Sadie Sink and Dylan O'Brien, who are kind of like acting it out, you see Dylan O'Brien's character, like, gaslighting sink, like, kind of over and over and over again with like, what do you mean? And know the reactions of, well, I can't believe you said about my friends versus no, I'm telling you, why did you drop my hand? And so Dr. Romani, she's like a psychologist. She does a lot of interviews on TV. She was on the red table, like, a while ago, and she talked about the difference between lying and gaslighting, which I thought was really helpful. And I use right, like, so if you give a liar evidence, they will stop lying. So if you Katrina and this is the example she uses, were, like, telling me that you didn't go to this party, and I find a picture of you at the party. I'm like, oh, Katrina, but you were at the party and you were oh, like, yeah, you're right.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I'm sorry.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: I didn't want to hurt your feelings because you weren't invited. I'm sorry you found the evidence. Or you could be embarrassed. You could have whatever reaction. But a person who's gaslighting you will double down and be like, I can't believe you would find a picture that's so crazy you would go to all these lengths to do this. So now it's about your mental health, right? You're crazy. And I just love that example of it. And then you're saying, I was there, I was there, over and over again. It's like no, I was there. I remember it all too well, is just so powerful. And the way she repeats it, it's like she's singing it to herself. Is she singing it to me?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Because when you are being gas lit and again, I hate to bring it back to narcissism, but very common psychological abuse technique of people with narcissistic personality traits is gaslighting, which what we mean by that is like, when you are confronting someone with these traits with a reality saying, like, hey, you hurt me. You did something wrong. You're confronting them about something they've done wrong. They can't tolerate it because people with these traits can't hold on to good and bad simultaneously, especially about themselves. They have such a deep sense of insecurity and feelings of worthlessness and nothingness that they can't hold on to it. They have to project it outward and put you down so they stay feeling up here and good about themselves. Some people do this in an overt way, like the grandiose kind of way. Other people more covert. And we have other episodes where we can get into that more. But with gaslighting, when you confront them with something like this, they can't tolerate it. So I have to flip it around and make you the bad guy. Sort of make you start to doubt your own sense of reality and make it seem like, well, did I remember that correctly? Or did I do something to provoke that behavior in them? And that's what you're talking about, and it really is crazy making. It makes you feel really confused. So I think when she keeps repeating to herself, I was there, I was there, it is like her reminding herself, like, no, I was there, and her sort of coming back to her sense of self and reality over and over, which happens when you're in a relationship with someone who's doing this to you. Whether it's romantic, your boss, a parent, like 100%. It's so challenging to recognize and so hard to explain.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yeah, I think it's a feeling I wish we could bottle the feeling of it because I think it's such a not necessarily. It shouldn't be such a common experience with one person, because if it is, then they're probably most likely a narcissist. But we've all kind of experienced. Someone gaslighting us and it's a feeling, it doesn't feel good, it takes us aback, and then right, it puts all the attention back on you and you feel right. So I don't know. Taylor Swift, her lyricism is amazing.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: I think in general, like you just said, at Best Portrait, she bottles feelings, really complex feelings and emotions and life experiences. She can just bottle up and deliver in a catchy way.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: That's the power of it.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Oh, my God, it's just amazing.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Well, as we wrap up, we could spend hours and going through many songs. Maybe we will do a couple of songs here and there. I don't know, maybe we'll get a.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Patreon someday and we can just go.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Through some of them because there's a lot, obviously. But thank you for watching. If you've kind of enjoyed this episode with us, we're so happy to have you here. This, hopefully, is the first of many of our video episodes, but if you are just listening audio, feel free to, like, rate, review and subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Analyze Scripts Podcast as well as TikTok at Analyze Scripts Podcast as well. And we always look for recommendations, right? So send us movies, TV shows, characters you want us to talk about, and anything else you want to add. Dr. Fury?

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: No, I think if you're listening to this and not watching the video, it'll be on our new YouTube channel. So we're really excited. If you're listening but you haven't subscribed, please subscribe. We're so close to hitting one of our milestone benchmarks and we're really excited about it. So we appreciate everyone who's tuned in so far. And I got to say, we really appreciate Taylor Swift and how she has been able to put words to really difficult feelings in a way that resonates with so many. Like, it gives me some shivers to think about how so many people feel understood by one person. And I hope she keeps using her power in a good, positive way.

Portia Pendleton LCSW: Yes, I agree. Thanks for listening.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: See you next Monday. Bye.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: This podcast and its contents are a copyright of analyzed scripts. All rights reserved. Any redistribution or reproduction of part or all of the contents in any form is prohibited. Unless you want to share it with.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Your friends and rate, review and subscribe, that's fine.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: All stories and characters discussed are fictional in nature. No identification with actual persons, living or deceased places, buildings or products is intended or should be inferred. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. The podcast and its contents do not constitute professional mental health or medical advice. Listeners might consider consulting a mental health provider if they need assistance with any mental health problems or concerns. As always, please call 911 or go directly to your nearest emergency room for any psychiatric emergencies. Thanks for listening, and see you next.

Dr. Katrina Furey MD: Time you sam, don't.

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