Evelin Lindner and Linda Hartling both wrote Ph.D.. dissertations on the subject of humiliation. They see it as a form of domination that, like shame, deeply wounds a person and may be the motivation for a war. Yet shame itself can contribute usefully to society, and it must be invoked as a way of inducing people to behave well. In this conversation, we consider the difficulty of holding people accountable for their actions while preserving the dignity of the human person. For the video, audio podcast, transcript and comments: https://tosavetheworld.ca/episode-473-humiliation.