Welcome back to Analyze Scripts, where a psychiatrist and a therapist analyze what Hollywood gets right and wrong about mental health. Today, we are in our Holiday era with the movie "Love Actually." We are joined by Julia Israelski, LCSW for this episode as we spread some holiday cheer by analyzing family dynamics, couples of course and any mental health disorders or themes we pick up on. You can expect our narrative on some eyebrow raising comments about bodies, love bombing and infidelity. Oh, and did we mention the cast!? We hope you enjoy!

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Hi, I'm Dr. Katrina Fieri, a psychiatrist. And I'm Portia Pendleton, a licensed clinical social worker. And this is Analyze Scripts, a podcast where two shrinks analyze the depiction of mental health in movies and TV shows. Our hope is that you learn some legit info about mental health while feeling like you're chatting with your girlfriends. There is so much misinformation out there, and it drives us nuts. And if someday we pay off our student loans or land a sponsorship, like with a lay flat airline or a major beauty brand, even better. So sit back, relax, grab some popcorn and your DSM Five and enjoy. Welcome back to another episode. We're so excited. Today we have a guest, my supervisor, who gives me great supervision, and another therapist in our community, Julia Israelski. And today we're going to be talking about Love Actually. So they've both seen it. I have not. Until now. I did watch it for the you had not seen this movie? No. Portia. Oh, my God. How? It's, like, one of the best movies of all time.

There's so many people in it. It's, like, amazing.

I I know. Know. Portia oh, my gosh. Yeah. I feel like this podcast has been, like, a journey for me to explore new classic genres and but all right, so I'm going to share a little bit about one of our co hosts today, Julia, before we get started, so you can know a little bit about her and all the amazing things she does. So Julia is Rilsky is a licensed clinical social worker, certified EMDR practitioner, and certified perinatal mental health professional and nearly 20 years of clinical experience. She currently has a private practice in Connecticut, where she specializes in interpersonal trauma, eating disorders, perinatal mental health, and parental stress. Prior to being in private practice, Julia was a clinical supervisor and oversaw the trauma program at a local community health center. Additionally, she has experience conducting forensic interviews and volunteering as a sexual assault crisis counselor. Most recently, she has been trying to spread her wheel of identity, which she created, which is really cool, to depathologize pathologize. Wow. Yeah. I can't seem to get it right. People that surviving these stressful times and to increase compassion for ourselves and others. So welcome.

Thanks.

Glad to be here. Welcome. Love act. Julie 2003. It's a little old. Amazing cast. Where should you start a rom.com? Yeah, right? It was kind of like coming out in the era of rom coms, I think. We haven't covered a rom.com yet, except maybe Legally Blonde. But I love this movie. I'm, like, in shock over. I'm having an acute stress response to Portia never having seen this movie. Oh, my gosh. It's so cast. I mean, I know that we'll get to our themes, but the cast was Rickman Rip, Harry Potter. Snape. Loved seeing him. Even though he's not a great character, he's good at playing the not great characters. Yeah, like villain era and then Emma Thompson, like, amazing. I was shocked to see her. Who else did you guys notice? Or who else? Liam Neeson. Yeah, I always love Liam Neeson. Laura Linney. Colin Firth. Just Keira Knightley. Yeah. And the little boy and the little girl were just adorable. Sam and Olivia, right? Was her name? I don't think it's Olivia. Oh, no. Did I get the name wrong? Oh, her real name's olivia. Her real name is Olivia Olsen. Gotcha. Anyway, but no, it is an all star cast. Sorry, Joanna. That's it. That's it. That's it. Thank you. And then, of course, we have Bill Nynee playing Billy Mac, which we just talked about him in a recent podcast episode about the best exotic Mary Gold Hotel. He was also in that movie, so it was fun for me to see him again in this movie, but, like, a totally different character. And I just loved him as, like, the aging pop star. Yeah, I didn't make that connection. So that's good. All right, so should we talk about couples? Should we talk about themes? What do we think? What's a good well, I think the whole premise of the movie is love, right? And I love how the movie begins and ends with those scenes at the Heathrow Airport, which I believe are all real. I don't think any of that's acting. I'm pretty sure that's all real. And I don't know if you guys knew this, but I think it was, like, 2021. I believe Britain recreated those scenes to talk about the pandemic kind of people being able to travel again and see their loved ones. And I know, right? It really gets you. And it was just interesting to watch all of that love. And it's just I don't know, like, Hugh Grant, we forgot to mention, like, the words he says at the beginning are just so beautiful. And I feel like it's just really timely to be talking about this movie and just the message in light of what's going on in the world right now.

I think that was one of the things I wrote down, was like, that quote in the beginning and can't remember what it was right now, but it's something about going through most people see the hard and the pain and the bad, but there's always love and there's always good. And yeah, I think it's super important right now with everything going on right.

To keep thinking about I think he says love actually is all around. And it reminds me of that Mr. Rogers quote, like, in times of stress, look for the helpers. Right, exactly. And so I just thought it was really poignant that we're talking about this movie kind of at this time in the month of December, as I think about Christmas and the holidays and families. And I think this movie does a good job kind of capturing people at different phases of life. All the complex interpersonal dynamics and relationships and so different forms of love, right?

Like friendship love, parent child love, romantic love. Like, just so many different forms of love, which I thought was great.

Right, exactly. Which we'll all see over the holidays whether we want to or not. So one thing that I had noticed, and I was kind know, texting a little bit with Julia and I don't know, Katrina, if you thought of this as watching it again, but I was just line after line, point after point of a lot of fat phobia. I thought that's why you wanted to cover this portia. Yeah. No, I know. No, I was like, no idea. I thought when we decided on this that that was one of the reasons you wanted to talk about it again. Because it's a lot directed at Natalie, who is not.

Really in a larger.

Like and I guess this is all subjective, of course, but it is weird to think like, oh, she's like the token, like, fat girl, but she's not.

Yes. I didn't remember that at all from having seen the movie in the past. But then this time I was like, oh, wow, it's like all over the place.

There's comments and I think that happens watching it, right? It's on you're playing with your kids or you're wrapping gifts or you're doing whatever, and you're not sitting down and watching it through a mental health lens. And after doing that with some things, we're like, oh, kind of over and over again at all of these icky moments. I think, unfortunately, it's a little bit to the times. I don't think that fat phobia by any means has gone away currently, but I think that's wildly inappropriate to have in a movie now. Even if it was a person in a larger body, it's just like it was just constantly happening. I don't know, I kept laughing and be like, are you guys did you know I so when this movie came out, I was in high school, so I think I picked it up because you're a high school girl, you're body conscious. And that was the time, I think, of maybe a little after the Kate Moss era, but not that much know. I think that was the time of Lindsay Lohan being in the news. Hillary Duff and Britney Spears. Like a lot of comments on women's bodies. Jessica Simpson. Like who's? Skinnier? Who's bigger? And so I feel like it is of the times that someone like Natalie would be called big or she kept talking about her legs being like tree trunks. I was like, we don't even see her legs. They're always in skirts. Like, what is going? But so I feel like it's like right on the times. But again, so icky to revisit, right? And then we even see Billy Mac talking about his manager. He keeps talking about how fat he is. It's just so weird, right? And then I think you even see that with Emma Thompson's character and then the hot young receptionist who's know flirting with her husband. They have different bodies, obviously. They're different people at different stages of life, different ages. But it was really interesting in way.

Yeah.

I think it's definitely within the times, even seeing Kara Knightley, it wasn't about her body per se, but I think with the comments and then just noticing her body, I know that obviously she's a very small person in a smaller body, but also one of the people who are highlighted at the time right. For being like maybe too or this is the ideal body. So I think it was just like an interesting comparison with the two. I know her, obviously from right, like Pirates of the Caribbean and stuff. Like the cast is mostly yeah, yeah. I think except for the American ones. And even when Colin goes to America to meet the hot girls, they're all like legit supermodels, right? But they all have similar bodies and everything. And I was just thinking like Aurelia, the Portuguese woman who Colin Firth's character falls in love with, like when he finally shows back up to propose, remember, the dad thinks he's wanting to propose to the other sister, who of course has to be know be in a larger body. So there is like a lot of fat phobia leading into this otherwise like super lovely movie. I feel like I also caught some homophobia, especially with Billy Mac and the manager. I couldn't tell if he really was in love with like in a romantic way or more like a familial way. And I wasn't really dad. Sorry, you go, Julia.

No, I was just going to say the relationship was a hot the manager.

Jerry, to say the least. Yeah. So Daniel to know stepson sam was initially, or know initially because it didn't change with him, but was like, I think really open to the idea if Sam was gay. Right. He was like, who do you who are you interested wear girl? I thought that feel so great. Also for 2003, which probably the movie was made in 2000, so that felt great. And then a couple of scenes later, an hour later, it was like, oh, now that we're a little bit homophobic, but again, feels kind of appropriate to the time. And maybe Billy Mac in that generation would have been more like that. Yeah. No, I agree. That's true. So I think we should spend a little bit of time on Sarah. So Sarah is at work, right. And she works with Carl. Carl. And Harry is her boss. That's like character played by Alan Rickman. So there's all these connections. So Harry is like trying to get her to talk to Carl, to hang out with him because she's in love with him and the whole office knows. I feel like that was inappropriate for a boss to intervene. Right. At first I thought maybe they were related like, is that his sister or something? And then I was like, oh, no, that's just her boss.

Yeah, super inappropriate. I thought it was really, like, a nice little foreshadowy. I told Portia, like, I'm obsessed when I think of that movie, all I think about is the cell phone ring like, that, like and when he first goes over to her to say something about how she loves Carl, he's like, turn off your like, that was the first thing he said. And I thought that was just like so it just speaks to how long this pattern with her brother has been going on and how intrusive it is in her world. I just thought it was an interesting little hint to that.

What do you think her brother has schizophrenia, by the way. She's sort of talking to him when he calls and saying, like, well, I don't know if I can talk to the Pope. Let me see. I don't know about the aliens. And I just think it's got to be incredibly hard to be the only surviving family member for someone with such a serious mental health condition. We see her go visit him in the psychiatric hospital. Almost looks like he's institutionalized, like he lives there. I think she alludes to her parents, no longer being around. I just think that's, like, an immense amount of pressure, and you can tell that she feels like she can't not answer or hang up the phone or we even see her, unfortunately, feeding his delusions by saying, like, well, I don't know if I can get a hold of the Pope. Let me see. And I think that happens, but it's such a tricky line to walk. I think, even for providers, that's tricky to walk. How do you maintain the sense of reality without challenging the patient too much, where they get upset and feel alone, but then it can be risky to sort of go along with kind of, like, collude with their delusion. So I really felt for her, it.

Was like, Julia, what do you the when she had her moment with Carl and then the phone ring, and she's, like, sitting, trying to stay in the moment, but not and then she gets.

Off the guy, and it was just so sad.

I just felt so bad for her. It's like, you know, that pull of family versus your future and kind of where you like, the past and the future pole thing. It was sad.

What would you work on her with in therapy? If she was your patient hungry? How would you do it?

Well, I guess I would want to understand her history more. Where did she learn that she's responsible for all of this, and where does she learn her kind of people pleasing prioritizing everybody else? And then just how does that serve her? How does it not? And if there are other supports that could be involved with her brother's care that she could utilize more and just trying to help her feel less alone in it and see that she's a person too. Because I think that often, especially women grow up feeling like they're not seen right, like, in the world, in a lot of places. And it's easy to be easy to just go along with the flow and just do what people need you to do. And I just feel like that's sort of she's filled this role for her brother because no one else is there to do it. And she loves him, and it's like she doesn't even see that she's a person too. And I feel like that happens so often with women. So that's what I would kind of want to work with her on. It's like seeing herself as an individual also. And who is she and how can she exist and support her brother without one being more important? What about you guys? How do you approach it?

That sounds good to me. Yeah, no, I mean, I think really just trying to see herself as your needs are also important, or you're allowed to do both. I think that's really hard for people who are taking care of a sick loved one in any terms of the word sick is just like, how can you also live your life and have needs and wants fulfilled while also assisting in a way that is helpful and beneficial to you and the person you're providing support for? Otherwise it just leads to burnout. And I think she is more than burned out, but it's like her life kind of doesn't exist. Yeah, it's like being his sister is her whole identity. When you try to think about her identity, that is 95% of it. And in situations like this, I also start to think about what is she getting out of it? Is there something where she's feeling important, she's feeling powerful, she's feeling altruistic, she's feeling good. Like, this is how she's feeling good. We don't know what her early relationship was like with her parents or if there was some talk about estate planning or what will happen to him when they're not here. I talk to a lot of adult patients who might have a sibling with special needs or some other medical or mental health condition as their parents age. Like, okay, what's going to happen? And that's a lot to take on. And I think with her, I don't know if she would show up to therapy. Right. I don't know if she wants to change. It kind of seems like she doesn't. She had Carl right there, and he is like, whoa, she's been pining after him for what, two days, seven months, 6 hours, two minutes, or whatever it was. He's there. And that pull to her brother in that whole situation so powerful. I don't know if she'd show up a, but I think I'd also work with her in addition to the boundary stuff for sure, like, normalizing all of the negative feelings she might be suppressing related to sort of being expected to fulfill this role and just kind of normalizing it.

You see it in that moment when she gets like he leaves when they're in the office and what's his name, carl walks out and then she's having her moment of being upset. And then the phone rings.

She's like, hi. It's just so I know. I thought it was also kind of weird how she would refer to her brother, like darling or it seemed almost like, romantic. And I don't think it I'm not trying to imply it was, but it doesn't seem like a way you'd call your sibling. I don't know, there was something about that that to me spoke to how their relationship is really enmeshed. Bigger. Yeah. Really enmeshed. That's the word. Yeah. It rides the line between almost appearing right, like inappropriately romantic or parent child.

That's what I found.

Darling or sweetie. Or sweetheart. But I think she also did say babe. Did she say babe? A babe, yeah. Which was like I mean, again, it felt really like parent child. And then when she's in the institution, hospital, home with him, and I thought that she, on the other hand, does a really good job at deescalating him so he kind of becomes physical. A person comes out to kind of assist and she is able to kind of talk him down and seemingly to bring him back into the moment. Which I'm not surprised because she's probably been doing it for years and knows everything on how to assist him, but really hard. I also didn't love that the movie is perpetuating this false narrative that people with psychotic disorders are violent towards others, which sometimes that happens, but we know far and away people living with psychotic disorders are far more likely to be victims of violence than perpetrators. And again, I think as much as I love this movie, as a movie, there's a lot of criticisms I have from mental health viewpoints, and that's a big one for me. Yeah. Do you think people were institutionalized, as we talked about in other episodes with the 1850s, 1940s, but do you think in 2003 someone would be living somewhere long term with schizophrenia? It's like right. They should be able to kind of manage it on their own with outside supports. It's a different country. I don't know. But it felt like I don't know. Yeah. I'm not sure what the landscape is like in the UK, but I mean, even now, even after the deinstitutionalization movement, there are still people who are ill enough where they do require group homes or things like that. We don't know.

It looked a little institutional for a residential.

I felt like it was trying to.

Be both, but it felt a little hospitaly.

Yeah. I was like, Is this a forensic hospital? Has he been violent or in the past? Is that why he's here, we don't really know. Yeah, but I think the clearest on the surface mental health right. Like coupling of the movie. So I don't know. I mean does she ever end up with like no. Yeah, I don't think moving on. Yeah. That final lingering glance between the two of them was so sad to me and as he should. Right. Like if I'm Carl's therapist, and you're kind of also secretly pining over this woman for years and, you know, make your move, do something which is awesome, and then you kind of see that it's just probably not going to go anywhere. And this is the case processing with him how to move forward and find someone else who can be more available currently to him. And obviously I hope Sarah gets there but it doesn't seem like it's going to be quick. Yeah. I mean that's such intense rejection to literally be like half naked in the bed and she can't stop answering the phone and you're just sort of finally connecting. I mean that's just such intense rejection. Right. I think it's healthier for him probably to process that disappointment and move on. But I think that's a great segue into us also talking about all the times we see people trying to make romantic love connections in the movie. Right. There's so many of them and it just I think really highlights how vulnerable you have to be to put yourself out there and how do each of them cope with either someone taking them up on it or rejecting them and how that's so dependent on their individual personality styles. Makes me think of the naked couple yes. Just how they're like naked and are they sex? Yes. *****? Yeah. I don't think it's a *****. I think it's like an R movie. I don't know. I mean maybe it's ***** but I saw someone talking on TikTok about how that does happen. But they're not naked. So when you are using stand ins to do cues and stuff like that, they might be doing the same moves though on top of each other or kind of like humping each other. But they wouldn't be nude. And so I thought it was so funny right. He alludes to having a hard time asking people out or being shy and first of all I'm like how did you get comfortable in this role? But I was great.

It just seems so hot their personalities.

To be both so funny. I know. They're both so quiet and polite. Let me warm up my hands for you. Is this know? It's so like it's also kind of a nice I don't know I think consent is too far but you know what mean like it's kind of a nice depiction of checking in with your partner and it was such a funny juxtaposition know as he's saying what Portia was just saying, they're like totally naked simulating a sexual know yeah. And he's just I was finally able to ask you. It seems like maybe he just needs to be naked from now on in order to ask people out. I think emotions, of course, are vulnerable, but it's like, also what's more vulnerable?

Exactly.

Unclothed. Like your body's on display. I think there's even, like a reality show out there now. Have you heard of this reality show? It has multiple seasons where you have I forget what it's called, but it's like the whole premise is you start by looking at each other's genitals or like you're dating naked. Yeah, you're like dating naked before you even start to get to know each other. And that's the whole quote unquote premise that let's just be as vulnerable as.

We unveiling is just a shot at the genitals.

I heard this. It's from the UK. So another UK show.

That's fascinating.

I think it's in multiple seasons. It's in like season four or six or something. So I heard someone else talking about on another Rick podcast. So I don't know, the fact oh, my gosh, I have to find they were I wonder if we heard the same podcast. I'm laughing now because I was like, they were saying how people are getting rejected for just obviously face value genitals. And they were talking. The one I heard was about the person searching for love is a female. So she's heterosexual. So there's all these men that she's looking at and their penises and one's too small, but one's too big. But then they say what they were kind of critiquing the show for is that they're not being honest with like, no, your ***** is too small or your ***** is too big. They're like, oh, yeah, I just didn't really get a good vibe. And it's like, no, you only saw his *****. Say what you're going to say about I don't know. Anyway. Another UK show. Isn't that wild? It's so wild to me that someone had the idea for this show and someone like, a lot of people ran with it and that people are consuming it so much that they've had multiple seasons. And then portia, I think your point is totally valid. But then I'm thinking about this woman. Like, what are you supposed to say? I know. And the podcast I was listening to was like, a woman commenting on an episode where a man who is heterosexual is looking at a bunch of vaginas. And the woman was like, I had no idea. They look so different.

In a way, I feel like that part is kind of normalizing and helpful because I think that that's something a lot of, like, I don't know. I had clients talk about that and feeling self conscious about that aspect of their so, like, I feel like there could be some normalization that happens, but sure, right.

I don't know how you like, what is it on? Like, is this on HBO? I was like, I think even streaming has it can't be, like, just on basic cable, right? I hope in the news, especially, I would think in Britain, where they're a little more buttoned know, stereotypically than Americans. Maybe not.

I don't think that would fly.

Maybe we're like shattering stereotypes. Yeah, maybe. But anyway, back to love, actually. So let's talk about Karen and Harry. That scene where she's so excited to open her present.

I know.

And it's the CD, which, if she hadn't seen the necklace, maybe it would have been really thoughtful. Right. But she did see and like, just when she goes away and cries and then has to come back and rally the kids and be excited to protect.

Her in that moment.

Every time I see that, I cry, every time, I just think, like and I just think that it's such a great depiction of what it's like to be a mom. I was going to say try to have your own experiences, but then be putting your kids first. So powerful. It really is. Just I tried.

Yeah, me too. She really it's so raw and real, and you could just feel it.

I saw a video that was saying or she was interviewed, emma Thompson was about that scene and why it's so powerful. And I guess that at the time, she had found out that her current partner was having an affair with the woman who plays Bellatrix in Harry Potter. I forget her name. Elena bonham Carter. Yes. Yes. And Emma Thompson is also in Harry Potter. She plays Professor Trelawney. So I just thought that was interesting. And now they're, like, friends, but they went on to have, like, a five year relationship, helen and her ex. So she says that it was so real, which is why I think you can watch the movie multiple times and still feel it. Feel it's so raw. And I think what beautiful art, right? Like, you just said, Borsha to watch it multiple times and still feel it. Because whether we all face betrayal in our lives in one flavor, or, like, even if it's not like that, like, you just get it and you just feel it with and like, just seeing her cry to Joni Mitchell, the CD he just gave her, and then tap your tears. Let's go with the Christmas lobsters. It's just and I feel like even.

If you don't have, like, that feeling of, like, you have to button it up and go back out into the world, I feel like is something that everybody kind of experiences, even, like, going.

To work after getting bad news. I think one of the hardest things we as humans have to do, which feels, to me very Western culture, like, up. You got to go to work, though. We have to kind of shelve our humanity and kind of get back on the wheel. And I think as mental health professionals, I think it's having something tragic happen in your. Life and then kind of trying to figure out when to come back to work or how you can show for your patients or what patients are going to be triggering because maybe a similar thing just happened to you. I think I'm not going to say it's especially hard because I don't want to quantify it, but I think it's very difficult to do, which I think we ask too much of people to do that. I totally agree. And I'm not sure, again, in our culture, which if you're working for a corporation and your mother dies, maybe you get 48 hours leave to go to the funeral and come back. Right. There's not a lot of room for grief in our culture. And I'm just thinking now of in the British culture, I'll never forget seeing William and Harry playing to the crowds at their mom's funeral when they were kids. Right. I just think it's like we're not good at grief in general and these cultures we're talking about. But yeah, I think especially as therapists or mental health professionals, you do want to show up for your patients, and at least I feel like responsibility to be there for them and be consistent as much as you can. And you have to keep your own humanity in mind, and knowing where to draw that line is really hard and I think comes with time and experience and from modeling. Right. Like, you have to have good supervisors or teachers who also model that and keep sending the message like it's okay and healthy to have your own boundaries and to recognize your own thought.

The little kid Sam, did a good job when he was like, I know I'm supposed to be thinking about mom, but I'm thinking about I'm in like, I think people feel so guilty feeling anything other than know and like, there's a lot of feelings at once and that's okay.

Yes. Did you, Julia, watch the show Shrinking, by any chance? Yeah, we love that show. But also there was a scene there with the daughter who she had that moment where she was, like, looking at a picture and noticed how happy she looked, and then she felt instantly guilty. How can I be happy when my mom's it's like forgetting them. That's so common and complicated. And you're right. I think this was another scene that really nailed it on the head. Yeah. Their relationship was beautiful. I thought, like, Sam and his stepdad, his mom had we don't know about.

Do we know about dad?

I don't think so. Or at least I didn't catch it.

Catch anything on it.

He just, like, shows up for one. I don't know, just like in a beautiful way that I feel like we couldn't even try to make it better as a therapist. Oh, well, he could have done this. It's like he just hits in every way, like giving him space, like letting him drum, respecting his signs. And then really fostering no, it's okay to be excited about something, too, or yeah. Let's focus on your love. It was just so beautiful as, like, a step. It really was.

It really was. And I love how he like, you put it in the notes, like, something about how awful love is, or the most painful total agony of total agony of falling in love.

Right. Like, Liam Neesa's character, I think his name's know they're sitting on that bench, and he's like, Something's wrong with Sam. He won't come out of his room. His mother just died. We don't know how long he's been in the picture. Like, if it's a short, it's if he's, like, raised, and we don't really know. I think it's clear he's adopted him, but you can tell he's not sure what to do, and of course he feels that way. And then they're on the bench, you can tell. He's like, oh, my God, what is going on? Are you doing drugs? What's going on? And then he says, I'm in love, and he's so relieved. But then the little boy is like, how can you be relieved? This is so agonizing. And it was just so beautiful and funny, and he was so valid.

Yes, you're right. Just it was really sweet and, like.

Young love is just beautiful and an important way that we learn right. About feelings and heartbreak and how to tolerate when someone doesn't like you back. I don't know. It's so important for us to learn. But then I think I would imagine also just wanting to protect your kids from those really hard feelings. Yeah. And so how beautiful that he encouraged him to go for it. Even though Joanna was leaving, he wasn't like, oh, what's the point? She's leaving. He was like, no. And I have to imagine that was influenced by his own grief. I was about to say I know you said that. I thought about the grief parallel, that he's like, no, you still love even if you're going to lose. Yeah. What a beautiful message to send a little boy who's somewhere in there grieving himself. Yeah. And then Emma or Karen after the play, when she like, what would you do? And then she kind of says, when you like the necklace. And I was so happy that she brought it up that, yes. And quickly. I don't know. I mean, it's kind of an impossible situation of knowing what to do, but it seemed like it was best for her to kind of just bring it up. And then he was obviously taken aback, and then, I'm such a fool, and she's like, no, but you made a fool out of me. And I was like, yes, that's like the ultimate betrayal. Or that, I think just quantifies her emotions of feeling foolish. Right. Like, I trusted you. You made little of our relationship, et.

Cetera, like a sense of humiliation, like, after that kind of yes.

And the fact that he was looking at the necklace with Mr. Bean, wrapping it up in such a funny, dramatic way while she was off Christmas shopping, probably for their kids or probably his mom or something, and he's doing that that's rage. And you have to know that as she gets the CD and she's putting it all together, she probably realized what was going on. And so cruel. You don't have to do that. It's like bad enough to be like, having an affair or an emotional affair, whatever you want to call it. I don't know how if it got physical with this secretary or not, but you have to do it when she's there with you. Like, go to the store later by yourself. Yeah. It's like so Mia I think that's her name, mia, I think was she was very overt with her advances. Right. Like sitting in the chair, like opening her legs. Okay, that's definitely a visual. And then I thought, which was really bold for both Harry and Mia was at the Christmas party, right. Karen is there, and she's like, asking him to dance. And I was just, wow. Like and Karen seemed to just be trusting the whatever she makes a comment of something like that. But it seems like then she really trusts know this is, you know, making advances, and it's inappropriate. Sure. But she trusts Harry. And then the fact right. To then find out that that's not the case, I think was obviously just like and again, like so humiliating to do that in front of everyone in a like it's just so cruel. It's so cruel. So I'm dying to know what you guys would do if the couple came to you for couple therapy or if each individually came to you, how would you help them navigate it? Because at the end, we see harry comes back from traveling somewhere. They're greeting him at the airport. And Karen isn't like, super warm and kissy kissy to say hello to him, but she's there picking him up. So it's not clear to me. Are they staying together? Are they working on it? Are they going to separate? How is it all going to unfold? Yeah, I don't know. I would imagine I don't work frequently or ever really with couples, but it would be just seeing what are their goals? Do they have a goal? Are they even in a place to say, we'd like to try to get past this, or are you getting to a goal and you're just kind of processing what happened? I feel like I've worked separately with both parties. Someone who has been unfaithful in our relationship and someone who has been the Karen. And it's really interesting, I think, to work with both just because I don't know. I think it just helps you understand why it happens. And it's not really like to excuse the behavior. Ultimately, it's a betrayal of trust, and it's lying but I think it's really just about getting people to see if there can be a repair or where they want to go next and if they can get through it, or what does it mean? Does it mean that the relationship is over? Or does it mean that something's going on that can be fixed?

I don't do couples either, but I feel like I would start with, what do you think you want? What are we working towards? But I don't do couples, so maybe you wouldn't.

Yeah, you in situations like this, like you want to say it's so clear, like, you should leave him. That's awful. But it's rarely that clear or that easy, especially when you have kids involved. You could be so mad at him, but still want the kids to love their dad. And I think Karen would be the kind of mom where she would walk that line. Right. Like, we saw it, the way she sort of pulled herself together and got those lobsters to the school, that she's not going to batmouth him in front of the kids, nor should she, but it's just not that simple to be like, oh, I'm just going to leave. And sometimes people feel a lot of shame when they don't want to leave and when they want to stay. And how do you work through it? It's just so tricky. No, I agree. And I think it's also important right, to keep your own judgments, which we do, but to ourselves, how could you do that? Not saying that. Or why don't you just leave him? Not going to say that. It's like having that place of not being a friend or like a family member, but like therapist who's really just exploring feelings. Sometimes it's hard. It's so hard. I think, especially with even sometimes, I always have to keep in mind, even if you're not saying it verbally, sometimes your facial expressions or reactions can rat you out. Right. And you want to just stay neutral because you don't know which way they're going. And you want your patient to feel comfortable and that they can be totally open. And sometimes they're really pulling for you. They really want to know what you think. It's almost like they want to relinquish their responsibility on you, and they want you to make the decision for them. And it gets tricky. That's why I think couples therapy is so yeah. So hard. We have to find someone a good one, I guess. Good one, but someone to have on here. I have a lot of questions for them. Yeah. We should do, like, a movie, I guess. All right, who else do we want to cover as we wrap up? Anyone hit on? I think definitely Natalie and the prime minister and harassment and the US. President.

Yeah.

Billy bathroom was so.

Everything about him just made my skin crawl just perfect.

And I was like, I feel like this is how people see Americans as just, like, takers in a lot of ways, I feel like he's not doing us any favors here. Hugh Grant or what's his name, his character?

Prime Minister.

Yeah, I think it's just Prime Minister. So he sees past Natalie's large body and allegedly be with her, and I think it's sweet. He obviously is very work oriented, and he kind of notices she's really nice, and he kind of doesn't realize that he's into her, I think, until he sees her being sexually harassed or assaulted by the US president. And then he kind of intervenes and has that big moment where he stands up to him. And it seems like all the staff and the UK are all really pleased. So I don't know. What did you guys think of his chase of going out to her neighborhood? I thought it was kind of inky that he fired her at some point and then found out where she lived and swooped her off her feet. Again, it's like, okay. On the one hand, it's like, oh, he really loves her so much that he's knocking on every door trying to find her. It's humorous, but it kind of was icky and maybe some red flags. Again, I didn't get the sense that his character is like a true Malignant narcissist, but it could go that way. I don't know. A little bit of love bombing, maybe. Out of nowhere, he's in a position of power over her. They're hot and heavy really quick. I think I'm overanalyzing it. But there was something right. They reminded me of the other couple. Right. So Kira Knightley and her recent husband. And that's an interesting you know, I think everyone probably assumes that he's going to be into husband Peter, and when he's not, I was like, Whoa, kind of shocked, but I just thought it was icky. Yes. I feel like this movie, there's a lot of relationships where it's like, is it sweet or creepy?

But I feel like it's not sort of not love is not creepy, but the challenge of love.

Right.

What feels really romantic to one person can feel really invasive to another. And that balance of what is appropriate, what's not, how does this land on this person versus what is their intention? And I think it does a good job of kind of depicting the complexity of that.

Definitely. Especially, I think, the scene when he has the cue cards, which is like, such a famous scene now, so iconic. And I remember watching in high school being like, oh, my God, that's so sweet. It was so creative. This was like back in the day when you'd ask someone to go to prom, it was like this big thing. But now as an adult, when I'm rewatching it, I'm just oh. Like, I tried to imagine being Kieran Iley's character, like, watching the wedding video, and it dawning on you that it's all you, and you're just like, oh, I thought she'd be admiring me. Like, you could see her face go.

From a really genuine smile to.

Yeah. And it's like, are you going to now capture me in your basement or can I get out of this house?

I was confused by her running after him, though.

Me too.

I didn't get that. And they never really explained it and I didn't really right.

Was it a goodbye acknowledgment? Almost. Did it kind of put a period at the end of like, oh, that was sweet, and like, I don't know, I think a little inappropriate, but like, did it end there or are now they going to go off and kind of have this secret affair together? It just didn't make sense with the context because she had always thought that he didn't like her, but now she's interested or in love. It was just kind of confusing. I didn't know what it meant. Yeah, that's actually such a great example of reaction formation, where you behave opposite, I think, than how you're really feeling. The guy's doing that, right. He really loves her, so he's so rude and cold to her and she's like, oh, he really doesn't like me. I know, I didn't understand. And she just got married and she could have just hooked him, right.

The fact that it was a kiss and the way she ran out, it just left me like, are they going.

To go back to this?

But it's funny when you say how when you were in high school because I remember that scene in my mind, I always thought it was so sweet. It was like this love moment. And then this time when I watched it, I was know your best friend's.

I know. Like, on Christmas Eve or something. And I know I feel so bad for Peter that he has no idea all this is going on. It puts Peter and Julia in such a weird but especially really, it almost seems like punishment for her. And I don't think he means it that way. But now she knows this about him.

What does she do with this?

Right? But then she goes and kisses him. So I'm really confused. I would love them to do like, a sequel now and just see all the same actors and actresses except Alan Rickman Rip, and just see where'd they end up. People would watch. That's our free movie advice of this episode. They can make a part two sequel. Yeah. And hopefully it's less fat phobic and we'll take it from there. Or we'll see. I don't know. But anyway, as we wrap up, we want to just thank everyone so much for joining us today. In this month of December, we hope you are going to have a good holiday season if you celebrate the holidays. And we do give a little bit of tips throughout these episodes of just like, having boundaries with family and friends and kind of how to navigate some difficult potential situations with gatherings and sometimes alcohol and all the things that can happen with that. Holidays are notoriously stressful for everyone, whether you struggle with your mental health or not. They just are. So, yeah, keep tuning in to hear more about our take. We're so grateful you joined us today, Julia.

Thank you so much.

It was super fun. And we will catch you next Monday with a new episode and you can follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. You can watch our videos now at Analyze Scripts podcast. Thanks. Bye. All right, bye.

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