In this podcast conversation, Grant Miller, CEO of Replicated, interviews Ev Kontsevoy, co-founder of Teleport (formerly Gravitational), reflecting on their past competition and the evolution of their respective companies. They discuss how their perspectives on competition have matured, evolving from emotional reactions to seeing competitors as allies who share a similar vision. Ev shares the origin story of Gravity, initially aimed at creating an operating system for the cloud, and how Teleport spun out as a more successful identity management solution. They dive into the challenges of enterprise sales, emphasizing the need to align product design and go-to-market strategy around minimizing the number of stakeholders involved in purchasing decisions. Ev also explains the concept of "trusted computing" and why decoupling infrastructure access from human behavior is crucial for robust security. They touch on the role of AI in modern systems, advocating for identity models that treat AI agents as first-class citizens, integrated into the same security and identity frameworks as humans and machines. The episode is a candid, philosophical, and tactical exchange about product evolution, security, enterprise sales, and the future of infrastructure.