This week, in the podcast that is and isn’t about design, your hosts swim through a tree, explore the grey area surrounding the white of the Polish flag and investigate the disappearance of a mummified toe from a bar in Canada.

Rob and Jon then talk about the influence and power of books. They ask each other about the reasons why they read, and discuss a few books that really made a difference in their lives.

Both pies this week are very probably not pies. Beers are from the Adnams and Redemption breweries.