This episode features veteran Los Angeles Nuart Theater Sins O’ The Flesh Rocky Horror shadow cast member and burlesque performer, Deb Kavis and her partner, artist Jesse Ledina. Deb, Jesse, and Michael talked about creativity, Sins O’ The Flesh, The Rocky Horror Picture Show, being an inspiration, social awakening, The Ogden Theatre, Lair of the White Worm, The White Buffalo, Slim Pickens, kink, burlesque, Alan Tudyk, broadening fandom, normalization, Oingo Boingo, Nitzer Ebb, art that holds up, Bowie, how Deb and Jesse met, karaoke and Twin Peaks.