Rachel Zucker speaks with poet, editor, teacher and former marketing consultant Victoria Chang about what writing in the third person makes possible, the liberation of formal constraints, mom-on-mom violence, how the literary community has changed over the years, how poetry finds us, shame, masks, letting poems tell you what to do, loving editing more than writing, community and difference, and the many kinds of literary and non-literary labor each of them does. They speak about Victoria’s recent book Barbie Chang and about Victoria’s forthcoming book, Obit, and so much more.