Let's say you are an educator who knows classroom conversations about race are essential. How can you lead those conversations effectively? Matthew R. Kay wrote the book on this topic: Not Light, But Fire: How to Lead Meaningful Race Conversations in the Classroom. Join host Tony Neal and co-host Deborah Bohlmann as they discuss with Matthew his practical how-to book for educators committed to the task of open conversation on social justice. Episode produced and directed by Deborah Bohlmann. Engineering, music, and creative support by Alvin Zamudio.