Is gentleness the lost art of pastoring? The apostle Paul forbids pastors from being bullies and from being quarrelsome, but many pastors (and churchgoers) today seem to think these qualifications are optional and even valorize ministerial violence, manipulation, and conflict. In this honest conversation, Jared and Ronnie share some of their own experiences serving under bully pastors, what sows the seeds of abuse in ministers, and how to pursue not an image of peace but a heart and reality of peace.