Last time Brie and Virgil spoke to Thomas Frank the 1/6 riots were ongoing in the background. Now, time has offered some perspective on whether that was truly a "populist" moment, the future of both left and right populism in this country, and what history tells us about how to "push Biden left" as so many liberals promised to do. We also dig into Frank's enormously popular Guardian article on the lab leak theory and what it it reveals about our media that it only now considered "acceptable" discourse. Also, Brie makes Frank listen to some Pod Save America and asks him to weigh in on Obama's seeming ignorance of his own populist charm.

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Produced by Ben Dalton (@wbend).

Theme by Nick Thorburn (@nickfromislands).