Jeremy talks with his friend Ismail Royer, an American Muslim and Director of the Islam and Religious Freedom Action Team for the Religious Freedom Institute. In 2003, Royer was indicted for assisting the Pakistan-based Lashkar-e-Taiba (LET) and served 14 years in prison. He now works to promote religious pluralism and help people not fall into extremism.

They talk about fatherhood, the psychology of extremism, Ismail's journey from Catholicism to atheism to Islam, his time with the Bosnian mujahideen, his decision to recruit for the LeT, his subsequent arrest, and his debates with terrorists in prison.