Hosted by Beth Rudden and Katie Smith, two builders of systems and challengers of the status quo. Beth is CEO of Bast.AI and a globally recognized expert in trustworthy AI, with decades of experience leading data and ethics at IBM. Katie is the founder of Humma.AI, a strategist who drove innovation and revenue growth at major global brands before turning to human rights and technology for social good. Together, they make complex issues like AI and the impacts on everyday people clear, personal, and impossible to ignore.

In this episode: The future of work is already being rewritten by systems, not people. As AI accelerates labor displacement and concentrates wealth in fewer hands, Universal Basic Income (UBI) has returned to the spotlight. But Katie Smith and Beth Rudden aren’t here to romanticize it.

They break down what UBI really is, why it’s misunderstood, and how tech elites hijack the conversation. They challenge the moral logic of effective altruism and explore why true economic reform demands more than a payout—it requires listening to people on the ground and rewriting the social contract with the community at the center.

From epigenetics and AI ethics to the shrinking middle class, this is not a handout discussion—it’s a call to design something radically better, together.

Topics Covered

• What Universal Basic Income is—and what it isn’t
• AI’s role in accelerating economic collapse and job displacement
• The branding problem: Why “basic” isn’t helping the cause
• Effective altruism and the failure of top-down solutions
• Epigenetics, stress, and the physiological cost of poverty
• Why UBI must be tied to systemic reform—not seen as a silver bullet
• The future of work and the danger of being left behind
• Community-led responses to automation and inequality
• How reimagining contribution can strengthen the middle class

Key Takeaways

• UBI isn’t the finish line—it’s a starting point.AI disruption is forcing urgent questions about labor, value, and equity.
• Effective altruism often centers the donor’s equation, not the community.
• The branding of UBI must shift from “basic needs” to shared contribution.
• Long-term economic health requires investing in people, not platforms.
• Real reform must be community-driven, transparent, and just.

Chapters (Timestamps)

00:00 — Introduction to Universal Basic Income (UBI) 

01:53 — Defining UBI and Its Implications 

07:12 — The Floor vs. The Ceiling: Understanding UBI's Role 

15:26 — Critique of Effective Altruism and Top-Down Solutions

24:54 — Systemic Issues and the Need for Reform 

31:28 — Reimagining the Future of Work 

34:47 — The Role of Universal Basic Income

37:29 — Understanding Epigenetics and Stress 

41:47 — The Dangers of AI and Wealth Distribution 

46:29 — Listening to Communities for a Better Future 

50:08 — Evolving Capitalism and Effective Altruism